A21 PEP (POI Expansion Pack) V21 - is not working (game wont start)

[7daysOfFun]

when i copied the 3 files in > config rwgmixer/localization and windows

my game wont start

at the start logo > fun pimp it writes something not found

and in cant choose menu or start game or something  ..only the 7days logo is there upside

i copied back the original 3 files, and its working again

the pois iv copied and they work good...only the mixer looks broken

anyone else this problem?

 

[MrSamuelAdams]

File needs to go into mods folder. Not where you placed it. 

Config - Prefabs - ModInfo.xml all go into the mods folder under the PEP-POIExpansionPack Folder 

 

[zztong]

I'm pretty sure PEP is distributed as a modlet. Just put the modlet in your Mods folder. Don't bust up the modlet and replace game files.

 

[7daysOfFun]

ok, iv placed in the mods folder now...

but what does the pep rwgmixer? the only difference i see it the map size..from 10 k to 12k

all other is the same

(changes in vanilla rwgmixer city size from 4 to 10 in both maps)

map cutini generated with copied pois(in pois, not using the rwgmixer directory from pep) from PEP

map jonowo generated with pep (all files) copied in mods

 

[zztong]

but what does the pep rwgmixer?

The PEP rwgmixer sets a lot of values that in my opinion are good for Darkness Falls, which has unique map requirements. If I were making a Vanilla RWG world, I would delete the rwgmixer.xml file from the PEP modlet.

Personally, I would also delete PEP's Prefabs/POIs/VanillaTagOverrides folder as I suspect the tags they're overriding are important only for a Darkness Falls world, but I haven't looked into the details of what they're doing there.

Teragon is a different beast and I'm not tried to integrate PEP and Teragon. There would have to be a configuration file to use in Teragon so that PEP's wilderness POIs would get placed. I'm not sure if Teragon would override Vanilla POIs like RWG allows.

Those are just my opinions. @Lemon Pie is the better source of information on PEP details.

 

[Lemon Pie]

The vanilla tag overrides only serve the purpose of adding ThemeTags with ThemeRepeatDistances to certain types of POIs in an effort to prevent things like neighbouring celltowers, book/hardware stores, prison, gas stations, etc, sometimes extending vanilla ThemeTags sometimes creating new ThemeTags to fit PEP similarities in theme compared to vanilla. I wouldn't remove them. They also make sure no fake traders spawn next to real ones which would look bad ingame / increase ThemeRepeatDistance for traders a bit because 40 traders on a 6K map is ridiculous, this forces the traders to spread out more. 

The PEP rwgmixer has been simplified recently in terms of prefab weights and next PEP update scheduled later today fixes an xpath error on my part in the prev version. All it'll try to do is encourage 1 of each prefab to spawn though it currently does have a bias towards higher tier POIs due to those scoring higher and I'm not sure if I should try to compensate this with +1 bias to T4, +2 bias to T3 etc etc. I'm curious how you'd feel about something like that to decrease higher tier weights @zztong? 

Besides that it increases the countrytown/town/city counts on most map sizes and tries to optimize size brackets some by changing those up a bit. 

With regards to Teragon, Zephyr created a PEP POI list which should be included on next update. I also heard rumors that Teragon might be able to simply load POI folders itself in the future. 

 

[zztong]

I'm curious how you'd feel about something like that to decrease higher tier weights

I'm not really sure. I mean everybody looks for something different in a map with different goals. Since A21.1, I've tried not to get in the way of that. I could certainly see somebody who didn't want preferred placement of the high tiers like TFP's default gives. I'm sure DF has unique needs. I say "rock on." I applaud your efforts.

In terms of bias and weight, my interpretation is the TFP approach treads lightly on the numbers. I don't think they use weight (because it is a multiplier of score) and they use bias very little. I don't want to upstage or out-place the TFP POIs, so I don't mess with bias either (other than to test POIs). Their score formula has Tier/5 in it, so Tier 4 get 4/5 = 0.8 more score. That should give T5 the first crack at placement if there's a marker for it on the Tile being filled. If you want to level the tier, then I'm not sure how you do it other than to make a list of every POI and put a bunch of bias +0.2 kind of changes. I'd be curious to know how it turns out. (Go for it!) If the Tier 5s have to compete equally I suspect it might be more like A20, but I'm not really sure. The score formula wasn't know to me before A21 and I don't know if A20 used it.

In terms of DF, my brief impression was that in order to get the story-unique POIs to place as desired bias was used with a heavy number, like 9. Other POIs got bias values like 2 and 3. That would get PEP POIs placed before Vanilla POIs, but a world usually has lots of spots to fill so I'm not sure I'd notice, but I didn't really try. I'm just guessing. I mean, if the DF players are happy then who am I to object? If they mix in my modlet, I won't have the same bias, so my stuff would compete like TFP's POIs, and if that's what's great for DF, then awesome.

Outside of a DF discussion, when somebody wants to mix POIs from multiple sources, things can get complex for them. Some of us package our POIs in modlets and some do not. This confuses people and sometimes they think they have to take apart a modlet to install it. (Oh how I hope Steam Workshop integration make modlet installation seamless.)

Of the modlets, some influence map creation. If they have multiple modlets that influence map creation and then those modlets can fight over settlement settings. At that point the player really doesn't have many choices if they aren't used to being arm-deep into the rwgmixer.xml details.

This is why I quit putting map change config into my modlet, but I'm not suggesting everyone should do that. I just came to the conclusion that messing with the map was outside the scope of my goals. I could put map stuff into another modlet and leave my POIs in a more general modlet.

I see this is turning into a ramble. (Sorry.)

I don't ultimately know what most people want, though I do see lots of requests for contradictory or impossible things. For instance, people will ask for large maps with no duplicate POIs. Umm, impossible unless folks get cracking and create another 5,000+ POIs. (I'd hate to see the look on the CP Team's faces if somebody bumped up their load to something like 7,500 POIs.)

Some people complain there aren't enough T5 POIs. Some people hate maps that don't place at least one of each T5 POI.

I hope it's also clear I'm not picking on PEP. I wasn't sure if the OP was making a map for DF or Vanilla. I know PEP includes changes to world generation and bias and that other modlets don't. How best to integrate? I have no idea, but deleting a modlet's rwgmixer.xml file is sometimes a viable hatchet job for a player who doesn't get into rwgmixer.xml details.

 

[zztong]

40 traders

40 Traders? Is that an exaggeration? I usually get 10 on an 8k map. For some reason TFP set the min_count for traders to 10.

The TFP rwgmixer.xml gives any POI with a trader tag a Bias of 20, which is huge. It adds directly to Score, so they're going to Score out at 21 to start. They're going to get first placement over everything when they fit the Tile being filled. By comparison, a Tier 5 will start with a score of 2. (1+5/5)

Once they start getting placed, the Score formula's increasing placement counter will reign things in quickly for the Tier 5s as they'll fall to a score lower than a Tier 1. Traders have that massive 20 bias and it will take a number of placements to get the starting score of 21 (21+0/5) to divide down to a number less that a tier 1 POI that starts with a score of 1.2 (1+1/5).

Given there are 5 traders and the big bias, I can see lots of placements, so sure maybe 40 of them. (Why haven't I seen that? I dunno.) Knocking down TFP's trader bias might help...?

For my tastes, I'd think setting trader bias to 2 and min_count of 5 would be fine. (I only want 1 of each trader on my solo maps.) I haven't tried those values because once I generate a world to play, I edit the world's prefabs.xml file and switch the extra traders to my "trader x" POIs so they just become destroyed trader POIs.