The missed post from woodle

[HammerDano]

A few other streamers have mentioned they had downloaded an earlier version, but were told to download an update. They did. Josh apparently didn't. Was it an honest error? Probably. Should he have deleted the video when requested? How does that saying go, something about biting hands...

If I felt like I had done nothing wrong...I'd probably stick to my guns too.
That biting the hand that feeds you comment cuts both ways... for how many years have Content Creators and Modders keep this game alive and relevant?

 

[Kyoji]

Good riddance.

Not biased, not banned, not even mad — just literate. I quoted the man contradicting himself in his own video and your counter was 'u mad tho?' If pointing out that someone broke an embargo reads as 'super mad' to you, I'd hate to see your reaction to a parking ticket. Also it's 'you're.' Both times.

I am not disagreeing with your take that he is wrong to keep the content up, but when you call someone Woodle the Noodle it appears you have some serious dislike for the individual. I may disagree with his actions but not to the point of slandering him with insults. It's just not that big of a deal.

The amount of people seriously upset about this is hilarious to me. It has no impact on your life. It's an issue with TFP and Jawoodle.

 

[Stallionsden]

I am not disagreeing with your take that he is wrong to keep the content up, but when you call someone Woodle the Noodle it appears you have some serious dislike for the individual. I may disagree with his actions but not to the point of slandering him with insults. It's just not that big of a deal.

The amount of people seriously upset about this is hilarious to me. It has no impact on your life. It's an issue with TFP and Jawoodle.

yet in the comment section of his you tubes people call him that all the time its a nick name and woodle has not removed it so as to see there is no ill intent in the nickname.. you also may not know aussies give each other lots of funny nicknames

 

[Double G]

Imagine this:
You have a version of the game.
TFP has approved that for publishing vids about.
It contains bandits in the spawn menu.
It is not the first time a version of bandits have been available like that. Somewhere in the A16 era a hidden bandit version was out and then even utilized by modders.

Would you Not post about the bandits in the spawn menu?

No. It's unprofessional and irresponsible. It's not like he's some 15 year old that's brand new to content creation. He's an adult that has been doing this for awhile, and seemingly has (or maybe had) a good relationship with the company.

To make matters worse, you're on a schedule - you want to be the first guy, or at least among the first people to push a 3.0 vid. Starting to contact the TFP streamer managers at that time might postpone your vid by a day, at least (no idea how well the time zones are handled.. if TFP is asleep, are there any comms?).

And how does that make it ok?

The only benefit of the doubt I can give him is that he, at the very least, probably knew it was questionable, but decided the upside was worth the risk.

But then again, this whole thing could've been a setup to create a stir within the community. And I hope that's the case, that it was deliberately orchestrated by both him and TFP, because that would be most fun.

EDIT: I just saw the discord message where he said TFP/BHVR asked him to remove or edit the video and he refused. A very timely video like this will earn a lot fast and likely decay hard. For him to make anything significant he will have to leave it up as long as possible, until it starts to flatline.

 

[Treb]

Not really; I don't care. I just can't consider that to be an actual admission of fault / absolution of JaWoodle... it's an off the cuff remark, would not hold in court.
"Streamer" is a person yes, but "it wasn't for streamers to see" makes no sense, no-one would care if they saw it. "It wasn't for streamers to stream" would make more sense, ties it to the "nor public to see" -part too. But places no blame.

Weird situation, since the info is already out, I might've asked JaWoodle to add a "message from the devs" to the video, something along the lines of: "Oops, that's a bit of a leak. Bandits and chicken coops aren't obviously ready yet, but enjoy the preview! Plenty of work to do before they go public!"

Dunno if that makes sense anymore if the JaWoodle refusal is a reality...

How did you go from reading that TFP admitted they didn't intend to give streamer access to a build with bandits to us saying Jawoodle has no blame? You're making jumps in logic.

TFP sending the wrong version doesn't mean Jawoodle had the right to leak. Those are two separate things.

 

[theFlu]

How did you go from reading that TFP admitted they didn't intend to give streamer access to a build with bandits to us saying Jawoodle has no blame?

I didn't, I asked for evidence for a claim of "TFP said they messed up". I still don't think we have that.

That may have been the intent of the sentence we've been dissecting; but I don't think that intent gets fulfilled.

Me talking about the blame on Woodle is just to point out that the sentence doesn't seem to remove the blame on Woodle, which is half of what's interesting, "who messed up and how?".

Sadly, "the man wasn't intended to be dead" still doesn't solve the case .. I don't disagree with @Riamus about the sentence, that it _might have been_ meant exactly like that. But it's too vague for a proper "hi guys, we messed up" ... (atm, I'd also like to see one from the muppet..).

 

[8_Hussars]

We live in an age where every public mistake quickly becomes fuel for social media exploitation.

In my view, there were two separate mistakes here. First, the wrong game version was provided to a streamer. Second, the streamer chose to exploit that mistake.

The first mistake was an operational error that could not be undone once it happened. The second was a personal choice that ultimately came down to individual values and judgment.

 

[Roland]

The single most meme'd, most anticipated feature TFP has, the feature that a significant portion of the community bashes TFP over the head with a spiked club every time they have a criticism to levy against the team. TFP were clearly saving that reveal. Now that sacred moment has been farmed by woodle the noodle, who knew all of this and posted the video anyway.

Yes and no. The footage that was leaked was a wip version of bandits and not anything that TFP was ever going to reveal. The bandits that TFP will reveal, when it's time, will be much more polished. As long as some good progress from the point that Woodle leaked is made, TFP will still get their big moment, TFP has shown early work before and when the finished product is finally revealed it has in no way been diminished by those early update releases.

On the bright side, the video shuts down the conspiracy theories we read all the time that TFP isn't really working on bandits and that it's a feature that will never come.

 

[theFlu]

On the bright side, the video shuts down the conspiracy theories we read all the time that TFP isn't really working on bandits and that it's a feature that will never come.

So, you're saying it WAS indeed intentional?

 

[Treb]

I didn't, I asked for evidence for a claim of "TFP said they messed up". I still don't think we have that.

That may have been the intent of the sentence we've been dissecting; but I don't think that intent gets fulfilled.

Me talking about the blame on Woodle is just to point out that the sentence doesn't seem to remove the blame on Woodle, which is half of what's interesting, "who messed up and how?".

Sadly, "the man wasn't intended to be dead" still doesn't solve the case .. I don't disagree with @Riamus about the sentence, that it _might have been_ meant exactly like that. But it's too vague for a proper "hi guys, we messed up" ... (atm, I'd also like to see one from the muppet..).

The intent is very clear to me, even as a ESL.

If you're expecting an official PR statement, you will probably be disappointed.

However, there is no ambiguity in what was said here, which is they didn't intend to give a build that could give access to bandits to the streamers. That's it.

You're not going to get a root cause analysis in public, I am sure they reviewed that internally.

 

[theFlu]

If you're expecting an official PR statement, you will probably be disappointed.

I'm not; I just don't think one exists..?

 

[Riamus]

Me talking about the blame on Woodle is just to point out that the sentence doesn't seem to remove the blame on Woodle, which is half of what's interesting, "who messed up and how?".

You keep trying to combine the two things. They are separate issues.

Original fault - TFP. They released the wrong version. They admitted to that. You can't say them saying that they did it to not be an admission that they were at fault. Who else could be at fault (to blame) for releasing the wrong version? No one else could have released the wrong version.

Secondary fault (not discussed in that sentence at all) - JaWoodle. Whether or not he thought it was a problem to show the stuff initially - he might have made an honest mistake - he chose, by his own admission, to ignore the request from TFP to take down or edit that stuff from his videos. That places blame on him for that part.

So, part 1 is TFP's fault and they admitted the wrong version was released. Part 2, which wasn't part of that sentence is that JaWoodle chose not to listen to TFP, making that part his own fault because it was his choice. If he knew that he shouldn't show it in the first place, then that's also his fault, but if the initial showing was an honest mistake, then the only real fault is when he ignored the request to remove it.

I think perhaps you're also trying to focus on blaming someone. TFP's statement was not an assignment of blame. They just took responsibility for (admitted to) giving out the wrong version. They weren't placing blame. They weren't saying that JaWoodle isn't at fault for ignoring their request just because they admitted to making the initial mistake. One doesn't negate the other.

 

[theFlu]

You keep trying to combine the two things. They are separate issues.

No? Yes. I'm not combining the two.
I made the argument that TFP didn't state "we messed up" when Crater Creator stated "something went wrong".
Separately I added that the statement doesn't address JaWoodle at all, which is half of what is interesting here. Not combining anything.

TFP's statement was not an assignment of blame.

Indeed, CCs comment didn't assign blame on Woodle, or TFP. Which a "We messed up" would do.

EDIT:
Another branch here.. the copyright on the video fits squarely in the category described in the EULA (recording of gameplay). It is TFP's to DMCA (according to TFP). I'd Love to have this case litigated to the end.. DMCA from TFP => refusal by Woodle => court, including "can a EULA even be used for this kinda of rights transfer". Just because I don't know if it is actually in case law... and it might be entertaining

 

[Dark Sun]

I see it the same as meganoth. It states that the version wasn't intended to be seen. That's an admission that they made it available when it wasn't intended to be made available. That's an admission of having made a mistake. We aren't really talking about blame. TFP isn't blaming anyone for it (at least not publicly; they may internally blame whomever it was who released the wrong version to streamers). But TFP did admit to their mistake, which is what I was saying.

As far as JaWoodle goes, he's intentionally ignoring a fair request from TFP. Why? Just to get views? Probably. He cares more about that than being courteous or considerate. But that's between him and TFP. These threads shouldn't even exist. It is really no different from discussing moderator actions, which is not allowed.

Honestly, agreed. This thread and topic is the textbook definition is drama. If the above picture isn't fabricated and TFP and BI have indeed requested him multiple times to remove the video or edit out the offending material, and he's declined every single time, that's a choice, that's certainly a choice (an interesting one at that), but that's his choice, and it's between him and TFP/BI alone. It would be no different in my eyes than if a creator made an hour-long rant intending to burn bridges for views, again, up to them.

As for his decision, I'm not getting into it, other than to say that money and fame changes people. Maybe he was always like this, maybe he wasn't, but once you get to a certain size, the views matter above all else. I say that with no colour or judgment, it just is.

 

[Dead Smarty]

He's no friend to this community or to the dev team who've poured countless hours into this game.

Exactly. He's a content creator that post YT video's for a living.
And TFP is using creators for promotion.
So why should his video be taken down if he got the wrong version? If TFP asks for it AND IS WILLING TO COMPENSATE FOR THIS then there is reason for TFP to ask him to take it down.

Content creator is a job, just as good as game developper. Both usefull for the game industry and both silightly overrated jobs in my personal opinion but still a job. I mean, I never hear "Think of the poor garbage collectors"...

 

[Dead Smarty]

A few other streamers have mentioned they had downloaded an earlier version, but were told to download an update. They did. Josh apparently didn't. Was it an honest error? Probably. Should he have deleted the video when requested? How does that saying go, something about biting hands...

He is not employed by TFP. Even then: If your boss F's up, is it your job to hide the mess he made? If his personal integrity tells him to leave it, if his audience is liking it, should he bend for the feeding hand that made the mistake possible?

 

[Kyoji]

yet in the comment section of his you tubes people call him that all the time its a nick name and woodle has not removed it so as to see there is no ill intent in the nickname.. you also may not know aussies give each other lots of funny nicknames

If that is the case then I misunderstood @permadeathpayday and I apologize. The post appeared, to me at the time, to be from someone who was very salty about the whole thing given the naming conventions.

 

[Sapient6]

Exactly. He's a content creator that post YT video's for a living.
And TFP is using creators for promotion.
So why should his video be taken down if he got the wrong version? If TFP asks for it AND IS WILLING TO COMPENSATE FOR THIS then there is reason for TFP to ask him to take it down.

Content creator is a job, just as good as game developper. Both usefull for the game industry and both silightly overrated jobs in my personal opinion but still a job. I mean, I never hear "Think of the poor garbage collectors"...

Best to think of it as a partnership arrangement rather than a boss/employee.

TFP benefits from the promotion and the streamer benefits from having early access to big releases.

If, at any point, one member of that partnership decides that it is no longer beneficial to them then they can terminate the partnership. Woodles can keep his video up and TFP terminate his access to streamer weekend builds. Looks to me like Woodles made the decision to terminate the partnership and TFP made it official.

Tempest in a teapot, really.

 

[8_Hussars]

So why should his video be taken down if he got the wrong version? If TFP asks for it AND IS WILLING TO COMPENSATE FOR THIS then there is reason for TFP to ask him to take it down.

It's supposed to be a mutually beneficial relationship built on trust. Regardless of the original mistake, the IP was not public domain, nor did it belong to the streamer simply because they received access in error.

I look at it somewhat like losing my wallet. Someone finds it, and I ask for it back. Instead of returning it immediately, they continue using the cash and cards because they came into possession of them through no fault of their own. The fact that I lost the wallet explains how they got it, but it doesn't change who it belongs to.

Similarly, the original mistake explains how access was obtained, but it doesn't necessarily create a right to retain or profit from something that was never theirs in the first place.