Day 1 btw… Are we serious? That shouldn’t be there.

7DaysToDieEnjoyer said:
The mini bike with this mod is as fast as a motorcycle.
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Personally, I rush the first 10 quest points to get the bicycle, then I don't worry too much about upgrading to another vehicle. Bicycle is great. When I do decide to upgrade, I go for either Motorcycle or 4x4. The reason I skip the minibike as an option, is purely because the vehicle upgrade is almost solely about having more storage.

I put 2 Vehicle Storage Mods on a vehicle, and that's the most important vehicle mods for me. Yeah, I end up adding extra mods to them, but those are never important to me. Motorcycle and 4x4 move plenty fast enough, you can even go 5km and it's just a few minutes.

WarMongerian said:
As a dedicated crafter, I have always hated it that everyone and their brother can upgrade their equipment/armor/weapons as fast or faster than a crafter can, just by hitting a trader. The only thing that keeps crafting alive (if only just barely), is the lvl 6 restrictions on most things, but even being able to buy/be given lvl 5 stuff is prettly bad.
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?? What is a dedicated crafter in this game? Crafting hasn't really been a thing since years ago when item quality went from 1-600. The only ways to level up crafting ability is magazines and perk books, and the only way to get them is from looting, killing, questing, and buying from the trader. And that's also how you get gear upgrades. So by "being a crafter" you're also "being a looter" and/or "interacting with the trader".

There literally is no possible way to be a "dedicated crafter" in vanilla.

7DaysToDieEnjoyer said:
Why should I craft or find something when the trader sells items I can’t even make, or things that should only appear in the late game? The balance of what we can buy is off.

Why am I even collecting spear books if the trader will soon be selling an iron spear at level 4, and I’m missing a lot of books anyway to craft it? I can’t craft it myself at all until level 6. So I’m collecting books just to craft level 6 items, and the difference between level 5 and 6 isn’t that big. The trader’s items should scale better with level.
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When I play, I leave the options open for gear upgrades. I'm happy to take an upgrade from loot, I'm happy to craft upgrades if I can, and I'm happy to spend dukes on a weapon or tool upgrade if the trader offers it.

I can remember specific instances where I've crafted iron-tier weapons and tools, or steel-tier weapons and tools quality 1-5, and I remember them because they're so rare. I usually go from stone-tier straight to steel-tier quality 6, and from primitive armour straight to quality 6 armour.

7DaysToDieEnjoyer said:
The very fact that I even have the option to buy them is just irritating. I don’t have to, but it’s like mind control, because I’m supposed to be searching for them or collecting books and schematics myself, and I don’t feel like doing it when I see them available for purchase.
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To me, it's just luck.

If you were searching all playthrough long and didn't find the schematic or item, that's unlucky, sure. But if you find the schematic in a mailbox or trader day 1, that's also just luck.

I don't know if I agree with blaming the trader, when it could have (hypothetically) been just as easy to find in a mailbox.
 
MiTHMoN said:
There literally is no possible way to be a "dedicated crafter" in vanilla.
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I don't know about that. I think it depends on what it is. When it comes to weapons I often use what I find, but sometimes craft, because I'll get drops before I can craft it. When it comes to armor I craft because I don't usually get what I want before it drops. It kind of depends on where I put my points and when, and I put points into armor very early.

The last time I played with a group, there was a bunch of crafting because we funneled all of the magazines to the person working on that specialty. When it came to things like food and medicine we had to craft to have enough supply.

Maybe it's a difference the definition of "dedicated"? I mean, nobody has a character that doesn't adventure and only stays at base to craft. But you can have a player who invests in their character's ability to craft and then makes use of the crafting system.
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MiTHMoN said:
When I play, I leave the options open for gear upgrades. I'm happy to take an upgrade from loot, I'm happy to craft upgrades if I can, and I'm happy to spend dukes on a weapon or tool upgrade if the trader offers it.

I can remember specific instances where I've crafted iron-tier weapons and tools, or steel-tier weapons and tools quality 1-5, and I remember them because they're so rare. I usually go from stone-tier straight to steel-tier quality 6, and from primitive armour straight to quality 6 armour.
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Yes, that's similar. I might make Tier 1 armor and then later Tier 6. For weapons, I probably won't need to craft until Tier 6, but sometimes craft a mid-tier Tier 5. For tools, I never craft or buy those; I just use what drops.
 
zztong said:
That's interesting and rather cool, though won't that completely cutoff Solar Power? I mean, I think the trader is the only source of solar components. (Easily modded into recipes, but...)
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Panels probably can be excluded from the trader limitation. That would be the easy way.

A really cool way to add higher solar back would be through the new combining. Solar panels should, unlike other items, increase their quality level one step when two equal level panels are combined. In that way someone turning the trader down can still create quality 6 solar power, but it will be a little more expensive naturally.
 
Vaeliorin said:
You're going to be really mad when you can buy a crucible on day 4, then.

Sometimes you get lucky, sometimes you don't. None of the schematics you can get are particularly meaningful now. It's not like you're finding the steel club blueprint on day 1 like used to be possible.

If you don't like traders, good news. 3.0 will let you turn them off. I'll probably do that myself.
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Agreed. If there's an optional feature in a game I don't like, either as a concept or in its current implementation, I limit myself with it or simply don't use it. When it comes to traders, I go back and forth. Considering that T4-T5 quest rewards these days are really meh, I just stop using traders beyond T3 complete, if I quest at all. Traders are, in my eyes, essentially designed to be overpowered air drops - unless you're a new player or you're committing to a very specific hermit-like playstyle where you barely loot at all, they're kind of unnecessary and objectively make the game easier by giving you tons of resources effectively for free. (Yes, I know they cost dukes, but it's not like we're trading mutually useful goods here like our ancient ancestors did.) If you like them, no judgment, I don't yuck on anyone's yum. I do like the sense of progression you get from them, but then I look at my toolbelt and realize that half of my stuff I essentially got as a handout from their stash. If there will be ways to nerf traders in 3.0, I'll be doing that, and if not, I'll just be turning them off.
 
7DaysToDieEnjoyer said:
The very fact that I even have the option to buy them is just irritating. I don’t have to, but it’s like mind control, because I’m supposed to be searching for them or collecting books and schematics myself, and I don’t feel like doing it when I see them available for purchase. I’m definitely not the only one who feels this way, so TFP certainly won’t be pleasing only me. Maybe 3.0 will change that, I hope, and everyone will be happy.
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While I personally wouldn't say it's like mind control (we do still have free will), I do get your perspective. If an air drop on day 4 in the pine forest offered you a quality level 6 M60 machine gun for free, I would throw it away and pretend I never saw it. Key word is pretend, it would create an internal conflict (I would be kicking myself in the teeth since I had deliberately handicapped myself but not using it), and I would rather said conflict not exist at all, so if a toggle was added to prevent that...
 
Roland said:
The option coming in 3.0 that will be perfect for you will be max trader tier. I have mine set to tier one so traders won’t sell anything above brown tier. I like to buy the weapons at brown tier to scrap them for parts so I can craft my own.
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This is very interesting, thank you for sharing!

Do you know if TFP are still taking suggestions for toggles? A couple I would like to see are one where traders stop selling magazines, and another that removes biased loot. (Ex. you spec into shotguns, you find more shotgun-related items)
 
Dark Sun said:
This is very interesting, thank you for sharing!

Do you know if TFP are still taking suggestions for toggles? A couple I would like to see are one where traders stop selling magazines, and another that removes biased loot. (Ex. you spec into shotguns, you find more shotgun-related items)
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I'm sure they will take suggestions after they release 3.0. I suspect that 3.x updates will have some community-suggested options.
 
Dark Sun said:
While I personally wouldn't say it's like mind control (we do still have free will), I do get your perspective. If an air drop on day 4 in the pine forest offered you a quality level 6 M60 machine gun for free, I would throw it away and pretend I never saw it. Key word is pretend, it would create an internal conflict (I would be kicking myself in the teeth since I had deliberately handicapped myself but not using it), and I would rather said conflict not exist at all, so if a toggle was added to prevent that...
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Yeah, I've done similar in games. For example, in No Man's Sky, someone randomly gave me stuff worth millions of credits. I ended up just destroying it so it wouldn't impact my game. I wanted to earn my own way and not be given a ton of money early in the game. But in this game, if I found a Q6 steel spear on day 1, I'd take it. I just wouldn't be using it until I had enough stamina to handle using it. But I don't buy much of anything from traders, regardless if it's some really great weapon.
 
Riamus said:
Yeah, I've done similar in games. For example, in No Man's Sky, someone randomly gave me stuff worth millions of credits. I ended up just destroying it so it wouldn't impact my game. I wanted to earn my own way and not be given a ton of money early in the game. But in this game, if I found a Q6 steel spear on day 1, I'd take it. I just wouldn't be using it until I had enough stamina to handle using it. But I don't buy much of anything from traders, regardless if it's some really great weapon.
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Likewise, Subnautica. People would leave crafted tools, ion power cells and late game materials in their time capsules that a portion, at least, of players would want to make and find themselves so they could experience the whole game for themselves. I had a locker of duplicate tools for that reason. Most, I'd already made. One I was tempted to use (laser cutter) because I hadn't found any shale deposits yet, but bit my lip until I had.

This is slightly different in that the schematic isn't handed to you for free unless it's found via exploration. It's for purchase from a vendor. So, I think just delaying when they appear in vendor inventory would be the optimal solution.
 
MiTHMoN said:
?? What is a dedicated crafter in this game? Crafting hasn't really been a thing since years ago when item quality went from 1-600. The only ways to level up crafting ability is magazines and perk books, and the only way to get them is from looting, killing, questing, and buying from the trader. And that's also how you get gear upgrades. So by "being a crafter" you're also "being a looter" and/or "interacting with the trader".
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The bolded part is your first mistake, you are confusing me, a real world player, with my in game little digital dude. As a human player, that is at heart a Dedicated Crafter, this game leaves allot to be desired.
 
WarMongerian said:
As a human player, that is at heart a Dedicated Crafter, this game leaves allot to be desired.
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How so? Loot has been nerfed to the point that it's most often pointless to check it as have vendor "rewards" for the very purpose of encouraging crafting. Exceptionally rare nice surprises (tools, weapons, armor, mods) just a level or two above what you already have in loot and vendor inventory and "rewards," though you might luck out on a piece of useless underwear, has even content creators -- who complained loudest and longest about A21's "balance" -- sighing and saying, "Meh. I can sell it, I guess" and "Nah. It wasn't worth it." I'd think "dedicated crafters" were having a field day.

Seriously. Looting, crafting, vendor rewards and vendor inventory should all be equally viable ways for players of all stripes to get what they need, each according to their preferred way to play, and players who just can't resist buying items they'll be able to make in the next hour or two might learn some self-discipline if they don't like it.

These things are never perfect. I know I wanted to throw Jarl Balgruuf's "gift" back in his face every, single time. What do I need with an armor piece with such a pitiful amount of frost resistance in my inventory? I'm sure the devs thought I'd find it useful. How very thoughtful of them. I didn't. And that's what TFP is up against, except TFP has an advantage: everyone needs the same tools. They also need armor, weapons and mods whether the roulette wheel lands on the one they want or not. Were the bicycle a kit missing a single part, like all the rest, even the blitzing of Tier 1 odd jobs might see a bit of a slowdown.
 
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8_Hussars said:
The Duality of 7d2d players.

"I like a smooth balanced and restricted progression, it makes me want to loot and explore."

"I like the RNG chance to find/loot a rare or OP item, it makes me want to loot and explore. "
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The thing is, loot is pretty predictable. About a year and a half or two years ago, I started getting bored of the game. I kept coming back, but it just wasn’t as fun as before. So I switched to harder difficulty settings, and every time I died, I’d change the seed because I noticed that different seeds give different items.

Playing a long time on the same seed, I’d often die on day one and have to start over. Going into the same starting POI, I noticed that almost every time I’d find medkits, bandages, painkillers, or other medical supplies. Some seeds would give me a crossbow or a pistol on the first day, or lots of books and food even with 25% loot. That’s why I change the seed after dying it makes finding stuff way more exciting.

I also stick to hard difficulty because the small things feel rewarding. A cornfield, a corn seed, mushrooms, a bandage, or a bit of food these little finds feel special. So when I see a trader selling those things, it annoys me. I want to earn and fight for these items myself. Buying them feels almost like getting them for free. I don’t want to rush or make the game easier for myself because I know what late game looks like, and I don’t want to get there too fast.

I don’t mind dying repeatedly and starting over it’s part of the fun for me. Plus, version 3.0 is still a few months away, so there’s no rush. I don’t want to get bored by jumping straight into late game. I’m still learning, discovering new mechanics, testing different things and limits, and enjoying the game.

Every night is exciting because it’s dark and the loot often surprises you. The small things feel much more rewarding. In the later stages of the game, some of that charm fades, but I still have things I’m searching for just not from a trader on day one.
 
zombiehunter said:
With all respect, that is far from an end game item. It is just a "nice to have" item and certainly not a game changer.
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Agreed. The water purifier mod spawning on day 1 is (arguably) a bigger deal than a vehicle mod schematic. I say "arguably" because we're now back to the days of spam crafting jars, just with smaller stack sizes. When dew collectors reigned supreme, yeah, it was far more imbalanced.
 
Dark Sun said:
Agreed. The water purifier mod spawning on day 1 is (arguably) a bigger deal than a vehicle mod schematic. I say "arguably" because we're now back to the days of spam crafting jars, just with smaller stack sizes. When dew collectors reigned supreme, yeah, it was far more imbalanced.
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Yes, sometimes it’s a problem because you have water guaranteed in the early game I’ve found this mod on day 1 many times. There are people for whom this mod is perfect, since they don’t like cooking and prefer a nomadic playstyle, but it could appear a bit later so that the early game has more importance when it comes to water, which can be a real challenge at the start.
Besides, the fact that once you fill a bucket with water and pour it wherever you want, the water you drink becomes infinite is a pretty big problem.
I also think the super charger has a very big impact on the game how fast you move around the map is key, at least that’s how it seems to me.
It’s still just a schematic you still need a steel workbench and a minibike, but I often couldn’t find it for a long time.
Moreover, not everyone plays more than one save, and even if they find these items, it’s mostly luck. Some people play a bit on their save, then stop and come back later or never. Finding these items too easily can spoil the experience of the game. For example, a new player might get lucky and find the water purification mod or be able to buy something nice from a trader that can ruin the gameplay, make the game boring quickly, and they might not even want to return to it because of the impression it left on them.
And when the game stops being a challenge, it starts to feel boring whether you get lucky or not, that’s how I see it.
 
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