Why is TFP making water so complicated? They don't need to!

T

tdevine

Refugee
There could be 4 types of water in this game and as may jars as you want. Jars/containers should not be determining difficulty for clean water in this game. The type of water and purification process should be.

Radioactive + dirty + infested water (probably most of the game world) = You need a carbon filter, and reverse osmosis filter or UV filter, and boil it to be safe. Real world process! Missing one or more of these steps could give the player a bigger and bigger health/death penalty, or larger chance to get sick. The dew collector can skip the boiling process and just be treated for radioactivity due to the atmosphere. Combine this entire method with iodine tablets to make PURIFIED water.

Dirty, non radioactive infested water (if you can find it, maybe in a bunker toilet) = As simple as running the water through a cloth and boiling it, perfectly drinkable, small chance to get sick. Combine this method with iodine tablets to make PURIFIED water.

Older, stagnant water, (found in 5gal jugs or water bottles) = Can drink as is for a very small chance for a penalty or to get sick, can boil this cleaner water to make PURIFIED water, with no chance of penalty or sickness.

You could find/create/buy these filters/tablets in the game world.
 
Adding an option for finding jars, drinks, and food allows for better balance. Since jars don’t break from falling or taking significant damage, a 50% refund works fine.
What’s still missing is that dew collectors and apiaries require empty jars. The whole stack of 10 jars fills on a single hit, which is to easy.
But overall, it’s almost good. The gameplay options change everything, allowing players to make the game easier or harder according to their preferences.
 
7DaysToDieEnjoyer said:
Adding an option for finding jars, drinks, and food allows for better balance. Since jars don’t break from falling or taking significant damage, a 50% refund works fine.
What’s still missing is that dew collectors and apiaries require empty jars. The whole stack of 10 jars fills on a single hit, which is to easy.
But overall, it’s almost good. The gameplay options change everything, allowing players to make the game easier or harder according to their preferences.
Click to expand...
You know that would make dew collectors pointless, right? Put in jars and wait until they fill versus take those same jars and fill them instantly at a water source. It doesn't make sense to require jars for the dew collectors. Dew collectors are an alternate way to get water and shouldn't require jars.
 
1. To craft jars, you only need a smithy and a low skill level (for example, at workstations).

2. You need to place jars in a dew collector. (The jars will fill up after a while.)

3. Jars have a lifespan of (for example) 3 uses.

4. A new resource is introduced: Very Dirty Water (river water, lake water, any water you can fill jars with yourself). This is not to be confused with murky water.

5. Very dirty water requires charcoal tablets or a special filter (craftable with a slightly higher skill level). This makes filtering this dirty water a bit more "expensive," to make it less straightforward, since this water is practically unlimited.
 
Vagus said:
1. To craft jars, you only need a smithy and a low skill level (for example, at workstations).

2. You need to place jars in a dew collector. (The jars will fill up after a while.)

3. Jars have a lifespan of (for example) 3 uses.

4. A new resource is introduced: Very Dirty Water (river water, lake water, any water you can fill jars with yourself). This is not to be confused with murky water.

5. Very dirty water requires charcoal tablets or a special filter (craftable with a slightly higher skill level). This makes filtering this dirty water a bit more "expensive," to make it less straightforward, since this water is practically unlimited.
Click to expand...
See my reply in your other post...
Riamus

Post in thread 'Slight changes to glasses and water.'

Vagus said:
1. To craft jars, you only need a smithy and a low skill level (for example, at workstations).

2. You need to place jars in a dew collector. (The jars will fill up after a while.)

3. Jars have a lifespan of (for example) 3 uses.

4. A new resource is introduced: Very Dirty Water (river water, lake water, any water you can fill jars with yourself). This is not to be confused with murky water.

5. Very dirty water requires charcoal tablets or a special filter (craftable with a slightly higher skill level). This makes filtering this dirty water a bit more "expensive," to make it less...
Click to expand...
 
The water system is fine as is, as I see it. The only change I can think of that would cut down on gripes I've already posted and that is to remove empty jars from loot and include only murky water in loot as before. Then, with the refund mechanic set to '0', those who don't want empty jars filling an inventory space will never have to deal with the loss of that single space. (No one seems to mind carrying murky water around.) Anything else, e.g. dew collectors requiring empty jars, would be wish fulfillment better addressed with a mod.

It makes wilderness survival slightly more feasible as is, though not completely viable on its own as, of course, there is a modicum of resources (odd and ends) and magazines to be found out in the wild. TFP might consider the largely unused wilderness concerning; they might not. Their decision what, if anything, to do about that, imo.
 
InfiniteWarrior said:
The water system is fine as is, as I see it. The only change I can think of that would cut down on gripes I've already posted and that is to remove empty jars from loot and include only murky water in loot as before. Then, with the refund mechanic set to '0', those who don't want empty jars filling an inventory space will never have to deal with the loss of that single space.
Click to expand...
I am not even sure that change is needed. With a pimped out Dew Collector, a single player can ignore jars and murky water totally.
 
8_Hussars said:
I am not even sure that change is needed. With a pimped out Dew Collector, a single player can ignore jars and murky water totally.
Click to expand...
However, it's a while before you can build a dew collector and some might not want to use dew collectors at all. I thought it might be too long a wait for the dew collector at first, but now think the magazine requirement is just about right. You can play for a good, long while with the new system and come up with enough drinking water (if not playing mountain man) to carry you along without incentivizing using it for producing copious amounts of glue, which I gather was TFP's primary concern about the water system. Seems pretty well balanced in that regard.
 
Last edited:
InfiniteWarrior said:
However, it's a while before you can build a dew collector and some might not want to use dew collectors at all. I thought it might be too long a wait for the dew collector at first, but now think the magazine requirement is just about right. You can play for a good, long while with the new system and come up with enough drinking water to carry you along without incentivizing using it for producing copious amounts of glue, which I gather was TFP's primary concern about the water system. Seems pretty well balanced in that regard.
Click to expand...
Fair enough.

(Currently, I think we find so much duct tape and glue in loot, that we rarely have to craft it anyway.)
 
Vagus said:
1. To craft jars, you only need a smithy and a low skill level (for example, at workstations).

2. You need to place jars in a dew collector. (The jars will fill up after a while.)

3. Jars have a lifespan of (for example) 3 uses.

4. A new resource is introduced: Very Dirty Water (river water, lake water, any water you can fill jars with yourself). This is not to be confused with murky water.

5. Very dirty water requires charcoal tablets or a special filter (craftable with a slightly higher skill level). This makes filtering this dirty water a bit more "expensive," to make it less straightforward, since this water is practically unlimited.
Click to expand...

Regarding points 4 and 5, I have a mod which does this, if you're interested:
Polluted Water khzmusik

Polluted Water

All water from natural sources is polluted and must be purified.

Regarding point 2 (dew collectors requiring jars): It is possible to mod in that functionality right now, but unfortunately you can't change the "fuel" icons in the UI from the ones used by the apiary (flowers & cotton) to glass jars. I'm hoping this is fixed when the chicken coop is released, since I imagine it will be use the same code, and TFP will want to display different icons there.

Point 3 is probably the hardest to implement, since code-wise, drinking produces an entirely new jar. You'd have to introduce some way to transfer a "used" value from one item to a new item, and the game doesn't have that right now.
 
8_Hussars said:
Fair enough.

(Currently, I think we find so much duct tape and glue in loot, that we rarely have to craft it anyway.)
Click to expand...
Depends on what you craft. We loot a lot of glue and duct tape, but for 2 players, we still have to craft a lot of glue to make duct tape. Just two quality 6 drones costs something like 240 duct tape (I might be remembering incorrectly, but it's a lot). Vehicles, weapons, etc. all cost a lot of duct tape at high quality levels. If you don't craft much, you don't need much, but if you do much crafting, you're probably going to need to craft a lot of duct tape. But I still don't see any reason why people need empty jars for that. I can get enough water even with the reduced murky water from 2.5 to make enough glue for our needs without specifically trying to get more.
 
I think what makes the different types of water more complicated is all the different recipes needed to accommodate them all. to make it simpler yet still have the ability of the different types, I think there should just be "water" and the different types should be a status or tag of the item that can be used to apply the different effects. then these status/tag can be directly modified on the water as things are done to clean them. and transfer to and limit what can be made with them so cooking with the different types of water doesn't become a nightmare.

also, if they are set as tags that transfer with cooking, they could be applied to raw ingredients also like how you grow your vegies so they could combine two different contaminated ingredients to get a nasty cook food., people could more easily add their own effects. but the item may need to be able to have different icons and localization description based on what tags are on it.

Rabbits Love Cactus said:
I think water is fine at this point. HOWEVER, I play without the helmet filter mod. I consider that a cheat mod. IMO I would remove it.
Click to expand...

we think the helmet filter cheating also. They have gone to trouble to make water harder to get, then give an unlimited way to get water. I think it should be a limited use item that degrades with each use.
but for now, we made a mod that removes the ability to place it in the head peace and instead use it as an ingredient to make the dew collector filter earlier, so it still is good to find just not overpowered.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top