V2.5 Survival Revival Dev Diary

To those of you who think you are eating your jars are you also eating your bowls? Are you cramming the fuel cannisters down into the fuel tanks of your cars? Are you smashing the paint cans against the walls of the base you just painted? Are you eating the wrappers of your candy and the cans of your peas?

There are so many abstractions in the game that you never worry about. Why worry about this one? What are you guys doing after you read your magazines? Stuffing them up your butts?

It's a game. You are taking things too literally.
My friends and I literally call it "eating a book/magazine," so pretty close. My buddy even says NOM NOM NOM over headset when he does it.

For the record, I have no problem with the abstractions of jars/bowls/cans/etc. disappearing after use. If we could keep them, cool. We do not keep them: also cool.
 
You also need to take into account how many people moved from PC back to console and how many new console players don't show in the graph.
Not to mention those playing overhauls or simply have a private steam profile.
 
Prediction: experimental shadow drop tomorrow, Friday. Stable release for console by Monday or Tuesday.
2.5 Experimental this Friday: Yes, I think so too.
2.5 Stable I guess would be late next week since TFP will very likely have to fix bugs reported from the Experimental build. Hopefully not too many bugs.
 
I disagree on having dew collectors needing jars. Compare the act of filling jars at dew collectors with filling them at any lake or swimming pool. The former means clicking on each dew collector twice and a day long wait inbetween. The latter involves driving to the nearest water source (distance is something you can manage to be rather minimal), and a few clicks to fill them stackwise, but the important thing, no waiting inbetween. I would assume most people would simply save the resources for producing any dew collectors.
Here's the issue. Why would you wait to get a crucible to craft jars (which shouldn't be craftable anyway, as that takes us past square one and straight to square zero) when you can just spam craft magical jar making factories (dew collectors)?

Additionally, bodies of water should be contaminated with zombie virus and radiation, making it infect you and hurt you, even when boiled.

Undead Legacy does water survival best, you take your empty jars with you when you go out looting, and fill them up from water barrels, sinks, toilet cisterns, etc etc. Virus free water that you then boil for use.
 
Here's the issue. Why would you wait to get a crucible to craft jars (which shouldn't be craftable anyway, as that takes us past square one and straight to square zero) when you can just spam craft magical jar making factories (dew collectors)?

Additionally, bodies of water should be contaminated with zombie virus and radiation, making it infect you and hurt you, even when boiled.

Undead Legacy does water survival best, you take your empty jars with you when you go out looting, and fill them up from water barrels, sinks, toilet cisterns, etc etc. Virus free water that you then boil for use.
not really an issue in my opinion. if you want to spam craft dew collectors you can. you still need to wait for the water and more important, collect them now and then - thats work for you every time.

i see it like this:
early game - find some jars, sustain yourself from them (adjust loot and jar return/breakage chance to your liking)
mid game - add dew collector for easier water
late game - still got dew collector but can craft jars en masse for big glue craft session etc. (water problem completely solved at this point, and thats fine)

i like all of this personally.

sure i dont know where the sweet spots are and those are different for all of us in terms of what we enjoy while playing.
some might turn down the loot, some might wanna have a high break chance (low chance of return the empty jar on use) and it's great that we can customize those things. thats really a big win in my books.
 
late game - still got dew collector but can craft jars en masse for big glue craft session etc. (water problem completely solved at this point, and thats fine)
Assuming jars aren't needed to collect water from dew collectors, each dew collector generates 3 filled jars per default game day as a base line, and 12 filled jars with the gatherer and tarp. By the time a crucible is obtained with jar refunds on, people will be more likely to throw away jars like in the old days than they are to craft even more to add to their hundreds in storage.

One thing I don't know is, are jars going to always be consumed when used in crafting, or does the refund apply to that too?
 
Assuming jars aren't needed to collect water from dew collectors, each dew collector generates 3 filled jars per default game day as a base line, and 12 filled jars with the gatherer and tarp. By the time a crucible is obtained with jar refunds on, people will be more likely to throw away jars like in the old days than they are to craft even more to add to their hundreds in storage.

One thing I don't know is, are jars going to always be consumed when used in crafting, or does the refund apply to that too?
yeah might be the case. depends on how much dew collectors the player crafts, how early they unlock it and how much jars you'll find in loot.

and i like the idea of jars being involved in the whole dew-collecting process, just don't know how to implement that so it would be a win overall.

PS: wasn't the output with the mods 6 water per day? might be wrong tho, recently only played multiplayer and most of our collectors ran without the additional mods in them.
 
Assuming jars aren't needed to collect water from dew collectors, each dew collector generates 3 filled jars per default game day as a base line, and 12 filled jars with the gatherer and tarp. By the time a crucible is obtained with jar refunds on, people will be more likely to throw away jars like in the old days than they are to craft even more to add to their hundreds in storage.
That doesn't sound like a problem to me. If they are playing with full refund of jars on drinking then I'd assume their goal is to not have to craft jars. So they are getting the experience they want. If I've got to deal with jars then I want them to matter so I'm most likely to play with jar refund set to 0, because I think that will give me the best game experience for my tastes. ...and when I've got a crucible I would then be inclined to craft jars rather than go make a giant dew collector farm.
 
Assuming jars aren't needed to collect water from dew collectors, each dew collector generates 3 filled jars per default game day as a base line, and 12 filled jars with the gatherer and tarp. By the time a crucible is obtained with jar refunds on, people will be more likely to throw away jars like in the old days than they are to craft even more to add to their hundreds in storage.

One thing I don't know is, are jars going to always be consumed when used in crafting, or does the refund apply to that too?

refund>0 is water easy mode and not default and surely will remove any water scarcity that TFP is trying to balance in, not sure it should be relevant to our discussion at all. We are usually not talking about loot set at 200% for the same reason.

The crucible is something you will automatically need for steel production. But it will also be the point where, when you need a stack of water for food or glue production, you simply can get it, even if you didn't dilligently looted your collectors every day.

Which actually I can't really do in my playthroughs as I am working heavily with subbases. Supplying each subbase with a few collectors is necessary but costly with the polymers and duct tape I would rather like to use elsewhere. So I don't put 6 or more dew collectors at every subbase and even though I may have lots of them in total I only collect from a fraction of them each day, the ones at the current base I am staying. And I also often forget to do it or am away for more than a day. Result: I seldom have a huge stack of water anywhere, and especially not enough when I get the idea that I need a generous stack of explosive arrows for next horde night.
 
PS: wasn't the output with the mods 6 water per day? might be wrong tho, recently only played multiplayer and most of our collectors ran without the additional mods in them.
each tool doubles the production, one halves the time it takes to create, and the other gives you double per creation.
 
Here's the issue. Why would you wait to get a crucible to craft jars (which shouldn't be craftable anyway, as that takes us past square one and straight to square zero) when you can just spam craft magical jar making factories (dew collectors)?
First, don't forget that people who want to can rush dukes to buy a crucible right away, letting them craft jars before they can even build a dew collector. Crafting jars also makes it far faster to generate a lot of water for people who want a ton of glue and don't want dozens of dew collectors. Personally, I am fine with 2-3 dew collectors for 2 players and won't ever craft jars. But others will do so. And in the end, people were asking for jars to be locked behind the crucible and still wanted to have the jars, so people obviously prefer jars for whatever reason even if there are alternatives. People will definitely craft them regardless of having dew collectors even if some of us think it's dumb.

Assuming jars aren't needed to collect water from dew collectors, each dew collector generates 3 filled jars per default game day as a base line, and 12 filled jars with the gatherer and tarp. By the time a crucible is obtained with jar refunds on, people will be more likely to throw away jars like in the old days than they are to craft even more to add to their hundreds in storage.

One thing I don't know is, are jars going to always be consumed when used in crafting, or does the refund apply to that too?
As I mentioned, you can rush buying a crucible in the early game if you really want. There are people who do that. There are also people who "need" a ton of water and don't want dozens of dew collectors. This benefits those people. The default setting is not to refund jars at all, so if you aren't changing that setting, that doesn't have any impact. If people want a harder time with water, they'll leave it at default. If they want excessive water, they'll increase it. That'll be their choice and doesn't impact anyone else who isn't joining their game.

each tool doubles the production, one halves the time it takes to create, and the other gives you double per creation.
That assumes you are always there to loot the water before it's full. That's not too hard when you aren't using both mods, but I'm regularly not getting the water out right away when using both mods because I'm not at the base all the time. In the end, I probably am only getting about 2.5x the unmodded amount of water when using both mods instead of 4x because of that. If someone is always at the base or people don't leave the base for long trips to quest or scavenge or explore or mine or whatever, then yes, it's 4x.
 
You also need to take into account how many people moved from PC back to console and how many new console players don't show in the graph.
Not to mention those playing overhauls or simply have a private steam profile.
Ive also seen the new prices of ram and thank God my brother has a spare. Cuz jezz man
 
With the chicken coop madmole said we have to pick up chickens

This is a bad idea because of people like @SnowDog1942 do you really want him to get ahold of the chickens???? DO YOU MADMOLE! THINK FAATAL AND WHY ROLAND would you let him touch the chickens! You shine a UV light on them and they will glow like a charge zombie!!!

View attachment 37564
Or volatiles
BTW would be nice to see UV lights in the game which could effect some zombs
 
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