Jars

F

for4gerz

Refugee
I don't like the idea of glass jars disappearing after use. Its stupid. If you need to balance the water, you could used two stages of water purification: collect infected water from lake, craft a water filter, get murky water and boil it. Its simple and balanced, not stupid like our coming update.
 
for4gerz said:
I don't like the idea of glass jars disappearing after use. Its stupid. If you need to balance the water, you could used two stages of water purification: collect infected water from lake, craft a water filter, get murky water and boil it. Its simple and balanced, not stupid like our coming update.
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Very easy to solve this!
1) heavilly reduce jar stacks 2) make water purification to have multiple stages (firstly purify through primitive or industrial water filters) and then through boiling 3) not adding empty jars recipe until glass blowing workstation introduced or not adding at all 4) make empty jars and drinks less findable
 
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I thought they would be locked behind the crucible and have the chance of breaking when hit, but I am grateful we got them back at all.

That being said, the patch notes are still a work in progress and might change once we reach stable.
 
ALEXZANDER said:
Very easy to solve this!
1) heavilly reduce jar stacks 2) make water purification to have multiple stages (firstly purify through primitive or industrial water filters) and then through boiling 3) not adding empty jars recipe until glass blowing workstation introduced or not adding at all 4) make empty jars and drinks less findable
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This sounds like an interesting way to process water but how would it balance the exponential accumulation of jars if they are never used up? You would still very quickly own stacks and stacks of jars and I assume that your purification workstation would operate like the campfire in that it is just automated and you can fill it with your stacks of jars and walk away and do other things and then come back later to stacks and stacks of pure water?

You are just adding steps in the process to go from undrinkable water to drinkable water but most of those steps are automated and can be queued up with progressively larger stacks of jars that never go away once obtained.

I don't think it is as easy to balance as you suppose.
 
Riamus said:
Well, here we go again. Complain about no jars and then they add them back with a compromise and the complaints start again. Why TFP bothered trying to make people happy is beyond me. They'll never succeed.
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Just the excuse to iterate was worth it. Who cares that the chronic complainers aren't happy. We all know they will never be happy. But many features are improved because TFP revisited them with community suggestions in mind.
 
For the record, I am not complaining just making an opinion on what I like.
There is not much they could do to change the game where I won't play it lol.
Heading for 11.5k hours and still want to play it.
Was first game I bought and will probably be the last one I play.
And hoping to see you at the trader Roland...I also have your back.
I don't forget..........
 
I think the return of jars will be fine. Though I still believe that another step in the water purification chain would feel right at home in the base game. I think the loss of jars is the right call from a balance perspective- The jars being noncraftable, I'm not 100% sold on. I think having them gated by crucibles and perhaps a frustratingly long craft time would be fine. Of course, can't really know what feels right 'till we have a chance to play it out.
 
Roland said:
This sounds like an interesting way to process water but how would it balance the exponential accumulation of jars if they are never used up? You would still very quickly own stacks and stacks of jars and I assume that your purification workstation would operate like the campfire in that it is just automated and you can fill it with your stacks of jars and walk away and do other things and then come back later to stacks and stacks of pure water?

You are just adding steps in the process to go from undrinkable water to drinkable water but most of those steps are automated and can be queued up with progressively larger stacks of jars that never go away once obtained.

I don't think it is as easy to balance as you suppose.
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Accumulating lots of water jars is not a problem! Its how the game/survival works! U will get lots of water soon or later anyway, just a matter of time! People usually accumulate stuff/resources/food/water to have all in one place for reserve and not wasting time seeking it again!
Most of those water problems are just making mountain out of a mole hill 🤦‍♂️!
If player wants to make water problematic to find - he can learn how to edit game files and do it for himself! Devs must not waste their time on this bullsh.t
 
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Roland said:
I don't think it is as easy to balance as you suppose.
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f,s, turn, f,s, strafe, f,s = my keybinds for looting three dew collectors for 18 clean water. About one second of work after the initial setup.
Balancing to that seems unnecessary, as that isn't really work.

The competing suggestion:
fill six stacks of jars, 10 at a time (clickety click-click)
loot 60 filtered water from the filter station, queue up 60 filtered water
loot campfire for 60 boiled waters, queue 60 boiled waters, add wood

In balance the latter still feels like work, while the in-game version removes basically all of it.

At the start, you have a couple jars and you're running back and forth with them, or crafting buckets; or currently you spend an inventory slot for murky jars.

Effort seems more for the alt suggestion in both ends; and I can't foresee it being less in between, unless TFP just mangles the drop rate.


But I guess they want to avoid the situation where most crafting deletes jars while drinking doesn't. Trying to force that comparison more "even", even though "not drinking" will kinda kill you by proxy, making it rather impossible to balance with any of the crafting in the game.
 
ALEXZANDER said:
If player wants to make water problematic to find - he can learn how to edit game files and do it for himself! Devs must not waste their time on this bullsh.t
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lol…the time was already spent. The posted changes are not proposals for the future. They are reports of what has already been done.

So your suggestion of learn how to edit the game rather than having the devs spend any more time on this stuff applies more to your proposals than it does to 4.5.

Follow your own advice to mod the game to keep jars after consumption, lower stack sizes, and add a new workstation that creates more steps to the water purification process. It’s good advice.
 
I for one think the changes are very good. For starters it gives value to water tiles in the game. Second it gives back a feature that people wanted which shows goodwill towards the community which can't be understated enough how important that is.

Jars being consume on use matches every other consumable in the game currently and makes more sense than having jars just build up in your inventory when cans and pill bottles disappear.

Furthermore while there is an argument to be made for realism I think it has to be weighed against gameplay. For example we wouldn't want our character to be forced to rest after a broken leg for months. Jars not being consume on use would bring back the imbalance we had when they were around before and other convoluted measures to rectify that imbalance seems like a waste of resources and manpower when you consider other potential developments.

I think the change is about as perfect as you could ask for given the development constraints and practicality of the whole thing.
 
Kyoji said:
Jars not being consume on use would bring back the imbalance we had when they were around before and other convoluted measures to rectify that imbalance seems like a waste of resources and manpower when you consider other potential developments.
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I dunno, "the balance" is quite weird as is. Giving the player that one or two jars on day one, and then keeping them Really rare in any loot; trader selling a couple per reset, feeling lucky finding one per POI. Or some such. It wouldn't "solve" as fast as the current system - I don't expect large shifts in water numbers in 2.5, just an extra trip to the ditch every now and then. But that's to be seen of course.
 
theFlu said:
I dunno, "the balance" is quite weird as is. Giving the player that one or two jars on day one, and then keeping them Really rare in any loot; trader selling a couple per reset, feeling lucky finding one per POI. Or some such. It wouldn't "solve" as fast as the current system - I don't expect large shifts in water numbers in 2.5, just an extra trip to the ditch every now and then. But that's to be seen of course.
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I agree it may not be perfect but for sure it sounds better than it was in 2.0 or in alpha 18.

I would have stacks of jars in my inventory I would throw away during looting because of how common they were in previous game iterations.

Ideally I would like to see more difficulties in early game good and water survival needing to find water sources and live animals for food before graduating to canned foods and a reasonable surplus of water and then end game be focused around prepared meals and dew collector farms for lots of incoming water for glue.
 
New update to the patch notes:
  • Jars can be crafted once you have a forge and a crucible.
    • With no perks, the recipe will be 31 sand and 6 clay
    • With Advanced Engineering 5/5, the recipe gets reduced to 25 sand and 5 clay

Personally i like "eating the jar", always hated empty cans and jars, they just clogged my inventory. But i also appreciate being able to craft them, this seems like a great solution to the problem they created themselves
 
crimson_binome said:
how about something immersive and logical like plastic soda bottles? soda bottles of all sizes wouldn't vanish after civilization falls. or perhaps a craftable leather waterskin? mankind used those for hundreds of years.
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Should they replace canned food as well then? Immersion is important in any game but under the pretense that it doesn't corrode the game principles.

For something that wasn't even a big issue it's gotten enough attention. It's time to move on to other things that would benefit the game more than redeveloping a system.

Even players like izprebuilt didn't care much for the return of jars and he's been one of the most critical of the changes post A18.
 
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