Perk and level/xp system should leave

[ALEXZANDER]

7 days game should be a survival zombie game with little amount of rpg elements instead of magical zombie mmo rpg!

Previosly game had LBD system which was automaticly leveling up by any of ur actions with specific tools - the only downside it had was unlocking some recipes with level points! U just played the game and u payed way less attention to that system while minding ur business!

But right now - the whole game and its ballance is tied on this cringe perk system so in order too keep up with growing crazy survivabillity/difficulty of zombies - u need to upgrade specific perk to boost ur weapon/tool stats which is idiotic for me!
The perk system doesn't add anything interesting to the game other than artificially stretching out the gameplay.

The weapon/tool stat boosts should be acquired by making specific modifications on melee weapons or finding/crafting higher quallity gun parts to make gun better, instead of magicly buying perk from the cloud to make them better!

Throw slippers at me as much as you want but i said whats needed

 

[Fritzl]

 

[Adam the Waster]

7 days game should be a survival zombie game with little amount of rpg elements instead of magical zombie mmo rpg!

Previosly game had LBD system which was automaticly leveling up by any of ur actions with specific tools - the only downside it had was unlocking some recipes with level points! U just played the game and u payed way less attention to that system while minding ur business!

But right now - the whole game and its ballance is tied on this cringe perk system so in order too keep up with growing crazy survivabillity/difficulty of zombies - u need to upgrade specific perk to boost ur weapon/tool stats which is idiotic for me!
The perk system doesn't add anything interesting to the game other than artificially stretching out the gameplay.

The weapon/tool stat boosts should be acquired by making specific modifications on melee weapons or finding/crafting higher quallity gun parts to make gun better, instead of magicly buying perk from the cloud to make them better!

Throw slippers at me as much as you want but i said whats needed

I think perks have its place and lbd is long dead. If you want that you get mods. However

I do think perks like strength and such should be more generalized so people can pick a build but do something like clubs and bows or something

 

[Roland]

7 days game should be a survival zombie game with little amount of rpg elements instead of magical zombie mmo rpg!

But that isn't what was pitched to kickstarter backers and it was never the ultimate plan of the Hueninks when they set about making their game. It's true the game didn't start out with any RPG elements but they were planned and eventually they started adding them until that aspect of the game grew to have as much presence as the survival aspect. Personally, I like the mixture of survival, minecraft style building, and RPG gameplay.

Previosly game had LBD system which was automaticly leveling up by any of ur actions with specific tools - the only downside it had was unlocking some recipes with level points! U just played the game and u payed way less attention to that system while minding ur business!

Some people were able to play it like you describe. I did. So I agree with you that LBD could be this great background organic passive progression system for those who had the will power to play it slow and natural. Unfortunately, you and I and people like us were the exceptions and it turns out quite a few people were not interested in just playing the game and playing no attention to the LBD mechanic. LBD became the whole point and focus of the game and that led to a lot of complaints about balance and replayability. For the vast number of players who would always discover the one best path no matter how many ways TFP rebalanced things, the game just no replayability because whether the meta was spam crafting, exploiting the traders, upgrading blocks, farming screamer hordes--or whatever was perceived as the fastest way to progress, players claimed that there was only one best way to play the game and they were forced to play that way.

Now this problem exists for the current system as well but since you can spend points on ANY skill you aren't trapped into always playing the same build because it is the best. You can play how you want and spend points in what you want. But do not make the mistake of thinking that just because you are the type of person who just plays the game and doesn't focus on leveling up that everyone else is the same.

But right now - the whole game and its ballance is tied on this cringe perk system so in order too keep up with growing crazy survivabillity/difficulty of zombies - u need to upgrade specific perk to boost ur weapon/tool stats which is idiotic for me!
The perk system doesn't add anything interesting to the game other than artificially stretching out the gameplay.

Sorry you don't like the current system. I do. We cancel each other out.

The weapon/tool stat boosts should be acquired by making specific modifications on melee weapons or finding/crafting higher quallity gun parts to make gun better, instead of magicly buying perk from the cloud to make them better!

I like that system as well. I don't see perks as magic abilities purchased from the cloud. If I did, I suspect I would hate them like you do. I don't think it is impossible for you to start seeing them as just another way to represent progression unless you don't choose to change your perspective. I don't think it's particularly hard to explain how the perk system represents character progression. It's also an easy system to just forget about and simply play the game.

Throw slippers at me as much as you want but i said whats needed

No slippers but I've got a ton of brown, orange, yellow, and green nerd boots to throw.

 

[Kyoji]

I am mostly indifferent to the leveling methodology, as I think both magazines and LBD make sense. I don't mind most perks, but agree that some of the perks are poorly designed, with theming and balance in mind, such as the Fan Favorite Perk which negates all fall damage.

Personally I agree that my favorite system would likely be weapon/armor upgrades based on the tier of weapon and armor you have. While most of the armor in the game is alright (some buffs don't make as much sense), I generally dislike when you attach unique stats to equipment as I feel compelled to wear what performs the best for my build compared to what I think looks nice.

IMO the current armor should be cosmetic and armor should be relegated to more basic things such as noise, movement speed and damage mitigation. We have perks for unique buffs so I don't understand why we have them for armor. Perhaps if we had some legendary armor you might have more unique buffs, but generally it feels unnecessary for this style of game.

 

[Mister Forgash]

Honestly, I'm curious how the Roland modlet played out where skill progression is rewarded by nothing other than concurrent days survived- no XP governing which activity gets you levels fastest.

I like the perk system, I'd be pretty bummed to see that go, personally, I liked the mix of LBD with perks which made it feel like 'I spent a lot of time hitting stuff with my axe, now I've gotten really good at it.' It's my understanding that LBD is gone so that nobody feels like they're stuck leveling through an activity they don't enjoy. I think it needed reworking rather than removing but it is what it is.

My biggest gripe right now is probably trader imbalance, loot balance, and just a general feeling of in becoming more arcadey in nature, I feel like it's drifting away from what brought me to it. The armor, the current perks, there's been a lot of powercreep

I want the game to have teeth. 2.5 may be promising with the smell and improved weather elements.

 

[ALEXZANDER]

but agree that some of the perks are poorly designed, with theming and balance in mind, such as the Fan Favorite Perk which negates all fall damage.

Recently I cringed from the situation that: food/medical buffs of consumables are heavilly tied on metabolism/physician perks!
I tried to untie them from the perk but i couldnt - or buffs were given on 1000+ hours or their effect lasted infinitely while having vanilla time in results! So i just gave up, kept perks but disabled perk point receiving after level up

 

[4sheetzngeegles]

I want the game to have teeth.

Here is something I did just cause I was curious.

Spoiler: Teeth from day one

<entitygroup name="WildGameForest">
animalRabbit, 5
animalChicken, 5
animalWolf, 10
zombieWightFeral, 10
animalZombieDog, 5
none, 65
</entitygroup>

<!-- *** WILD_GAME_FOREST_NIGHT -->
<entitygroup name="WildGameForestNight">
animalDoe, 5
animalStag,1
zombieWightFeral, 5
animalZombieDog, 5
animalWolf, 10
none, 74
</entitygroup>

<biome name="pine_forest">
<spawn id="dz01" maxcount="1" respawndelay=".3" time="Day" entitygroup="ZombiesAll" notags="commercial,industrial,downtown" />
<spawn id="nz01" maxcount="1" respawndelay=".3" time="Night" entitygroup="ZombiesNight" notags="commercial,industrial,downtown" />

<spawn id="dz02" maxcount="2" respawndelay="0.3" time="Day" entitygroup="ZombiesAll" tags="commercial,industrial" notags="downtown" />
<spawn id="nz02" maxcount="3" respawndelay="0.15" time="Night" entitygroup="ZombiesNight" tags="commercial,industrial" notags="downtown" />

<spawn id="dz03" maxcount="3" respawndelay="0.3" time="Day" entitygroup="ZombiesForestDowntown" tags="downtown" />
<spawn id="nz03" maxcount="3" respawndelay="0.1" time="Night" entitygroup="ZombiesForestDowntownNight" tags="downtown" />

<spawn id="aa01" maxcount="1" respawndelay="1.5" time="Any" entitygroup="WildGameForest" />
<spawn id="na01" maxcount="1" respawndelay="1.3" time="Night" entitygroup="WildGameForestNight" />
<spawn id="ne01" maxcount="1" respawndelay="2.9" time="Night" entitygroup="EnemyAnimalsForest" />
</biome>

Every chicken and rabbit brings company, People have commented a lot about not seeing them
or doubting they spawn. Now I have to fight, for a meal.

 

[Riamus]

such as the Fan Favorite Perk

So you say it's a favorite for people and yet you want to remove or change it just because you personally don't like it? You think the game should be how you want instead of how others want it to be? Remove what others like (their "fan favorite perk") so the game isn't how they like it just so it can be how you want it to be? I enjoy jumping off skyscrapers either on foot or in vehicles. I enjoy jumping vehicles across rivers (actual rivers and not what RWG makes), which means very high jumps that would put Dukes of Hazard to shame and would realistically destroy a vehicle. Are you saying that your preference for simulated reality is the only way they should make the game while my preference for just having fun in the game isn't acceptable because it isn't realistic?

This game is not and never will be a realistic simulation. If you want a sim, you'll need to mod the game.

 

[Kyoji]

So you say it's a favorite for people and yet you want to remove or change it just because you personally don't like it? You think the game should be how you want instead of how others want it to be? Remove what others like (their "fan favorite perk") so the game isn't how they like it just so it can be how you want it to be? I enjoy jumping off skyscrapers either on foot or in vehicles. I enjoy jumping vehicles across rivers (actual rivers and not what RWG makes), which means very high jumps that would put Dukes of Hazard to shame and would realistically destroy a vehicle. Are you saying that your preference for simulated reality is the only way they should make the game while my preference for just having fun in the game isn't acceptable because it isn't realistic?

This game is not and never will be a realistic simulation. If you want a sim, you'll need to mod the game.

My post is to offer my advice on balance for the game. I think that the Parkour perk doesn't match with the games psuedo realism design and breaks the game as far as how strong the perk is.

If I can't offer a suggestion at the expense of your own then what are we even doing here? You will never make everyone happy so based on that simple logic no one should have a voice? I can only post my case and you yours and let the developers figure it out. These are feedback forums after all.

Also I am not asking for a sim and your misrepresentation of what I said shows me that you don't really want an honest discussion but rather want to degrade my post to others to prove whatever point you have about Dukes of Hazard.

Stop playing the victim and just openly discuss why you think 0 fall damage from a skyscraper is good.

 

[theFlu]

Stop playing the victim and just openly discuss why you think 0 fall damage from a skyscraper is good.

I have no strong opinion of the matter; but why do you consider it "bad"?

Being able to take the drop is obviously unnatural, but game mechanics -wise you can just as well place blocks on the wall while falling. Equally insane from a realism pov, but roughly as quick. And a lot less Fun. It doesn't seem like it breaks anything in the game, it's mainly just a silly way to get back to your wheels after a successful tower raid. It's so insignificant in the game that I don't even consider the +6m boots having an actual bonus; with as well be without.

Overall it just seems like a silly vertigo-inducing funny ability.

 

[Kyoji]

I have no strong opinion of the matter; but why do you consider it "bad"?

Being able to take the drop is obviously unnatural, but game mechanics -wise you can just as well place blocks on the wall while falling. Equally insane from a realism pov, but roughly as quick. And a lot less Fun. It doesn't seem like it breaks anything in the game, it's mainly just a silly way to get back to your wheels after a successful tower raid. It's so insignificant in the game that I don't even consider the +6m boots having an actual bonus; with as well be without.

Overall it just seems like a silly vertigo-inducing funny ability.

The example given for something unrealistic is overridden by its necessitated value for the game to play properly. It's a byproduct of the voxel based system the game uses as a foundation. The other is a perk that was only recently introduced.

For me it's not about realism in the strictest sense but how well it fits in within the game. For example it would be jarring to see a dragon flying in the skies as it doesn't fit with the game. The game uses pseudo realistic concepts as the framework. It's why we have things that seem plausible within the game.

Taking 0 fall damage from a massive height isn't really plausible within the games setting and it takes away from the immersion of being in a zombie apocalypse.

Its also why I disliked the yeti design as the themeing didn't match the game.

So it's not about realism in the strictest sense but rather would I find something plausible within the framework the game has provided.

When I play Skyrim or Fallout the idea for me anyway is to immerse yourself in the game. You are that character. Things that seem out of place take you out of that immersion.

Thanks for offering proper advice rather than complain about my opinion. I might not be right but so long as I am not disrespectful my opinion should be valid to post.

 

[theFlu]

Taking 0 fall damage from a massive height isn't really plausible within the games setting and it takes away from the immersion of being in a zombie apocalypse.

Makes sense, thanks for clarifying. The things that bug us are all quite personal

 

[Caelynd Maclyrr]

The example given for something unrealistic is overridden by its necessitated value for the game to play properly. It's a byproduct of the voxel based system the game uses as a foundation. The other is a perk that was only recently introduced.

For me it's not about realism in the strictest sense but how well it fits in within the game. For example it would be jarring to see a dragon flying in the skies as it doesn't fit with the game. The game uses pseudo realistic concepts as the framework. It's why we have things that seem plausible within the game.

Taking 0 fall damage from a massive height isn't really plausible within the games setting and it takes away from the immersion of being in a zombie apocalypse.

Its also why I disliked the yeti design as the themeing didn't match the game.

So it's not about realism in the strictest sense but rather would I find something plausible within the framework the game has provided.

When I play Skyrim or Fallout the idea for me anyway is to immerse yourself in the game. You are that character. Things that seem out of place take you out of that immersion.

Thanks for offering proper advice rather than complain about my opinion. I might not be right but so long as I am not disrespectful my opinion should be valid to post.

You can stuff a 4x4 in your pack along with crap-tons of concrete, and THIS breaks your immersion?

Don't like it, don't use it. Other people enjoy it, so why be a downer?

 

[Kyoji]

You can stuff a 4x4 in your pack along with crap-tons of concrete, and THIS breaks your immersion?

Don't like it, don't use it. Other people enjoy it, so why be a downer?

Others like the yeti and yet people complained and it's gone. Some hate jars and now they are back. The forums are for feedback. It's like me saying if don't like my suggestion then don't read the forums.

Two wrongs do not make a right. Just because other things break immersion as you put it doesn't mean other things shouldn't be scrutinized. Otherwise I want my dragon and I don't want a peep out of anyone about immersion.

The 4x4 provides game utility for the purposes of streamlining gameplay. The other does not in my opinion.

You don't have to agree with what I'm saying but I am entitled to say it. The amount of whining going on just because others don't like something is beyond entitled and ridiculous.

 

[Javabean867]

Seriously, I can't believe no one has figured it out yet, I'm the only 1 to suggest it.

Guys, we are playing people who are playing a virtual reality zombie apocalypse game. that's why the perks exist the way they do. it's why we have perks that give 0 fall damage. it's why zombies are structural engineers. It explains everything.

 

[Rotor]

Some hate jars and now they are back.

Now now let's keep the jars out of this .

 

[Mister Forgash]

Taking 0 fall damage from a massive height isn't really plausible within the games setting and it takes away from the immersion of being in a zombie apocalypse.

For the sake of argument, I think there's enough concepts within the 7D2D world are gamified, that it's not too out of place.
-With zombies, I cant imagine any conceivable explanation the cop should be able to vomit that far - but as a player, it's obvious: fun.
-Also Chuck- even ignoring his yeti origins, if we want to look at the mechanics.. He can stand on your concrete floor and rip out a ball- but it neither loses mass or takes damage [Probably a good thing, I'd hate if he shows up, rips out your floors and throws it on the walls]
-With inventory management, you can carry all the mats you need to build a fortress, you can carry a truck and a chopper too- all the gas you need to fill 'em up, and so much more, on the other hand, if you go to loot the local pass 'n gas and you already have some eggs, some rocks, and pocket sand that you don't want to give up, you're going to start having to make some decisions. - but again, as the player both of those make sense. ...Also, you can pack that same fortress from a second ago into a drone and it can still fly.
-I think some people (Not really me, though, I like perks) would argue that perk points in general are immersion breaking because the same gun should do the same damage in anyone's hands regardless of training.
-And there's the other candies and various elixirs, mega crush.

Two wrongs do not make a right.

But half a dozen points make a line.

just openly discuss why you think 0 fall damage from a skyscraper is good.

Convenience. If I fought my way to the top of a skyscraper, pop those big boxes, and now I have the option of a fast way down, I'm taking it. - more so if I'm encumbered with loot. -There is nothing fun about backtracking through a Poi you've already cleared, only now you're 40% slower.

Anyhow, there's only 2 reasons a player can handle a fall like that anyhow, 1 they came prepared ohshizdrops.. (Which, there is an argument to be made that they should be parachutes instead- but then people will want to craft them..)
The other is going deep agility.. which is also a substantial investment.

I hope none of this comes across as critical, just offering my counter argument.

 

[Kyoji]

For the sake of argument, I think there's enough concepts within the 7D2D world are gamified, that it's not too out of place.
-With zombies, I cant imagine any conceivable explanation the cop should be able to vomit that far - but as a player, it's obvious: fun.
-Also Chuck- even ignoring his yeti origins, if we want to look at the mechanics.. He can stand on your concrete floor and rip out a ball- but it neither loses mass or takes damage [Probably a good thing, I'd hate if he shows up, rips out your floors and throws it on the walls]

I could make an argument for genetic engineering biohazard fail ala Umbrella Corp moreso than a traditional zombie apocalypse given the labs we find throughout the game which could be a reason for such things, but I understand your point.

-With inventory management, you can carry all the mats you need to build a fortress, you can carry a truck and a chopper too- all the gas you need to fill 'em up, and so much more, on the other hand, if you go to loot the local pass 'n gas and you already have some eggs, some rocks, and pocket sand that you don't want to give up, you're going to start having to make some decisions. - but again, as the player both of those make sense. ...Also, you can pack that same fortress from a second ago into a drone and it can still fly.

I agree that it doesn't make sense from a realistic approach but I think it's necessary for the game to function, whereas I don't think the fall negation is necessary. You could increase the range to 20 meters and I could buy it, but from 100 - not as much.

-I think some people (Not really me, though, I like perks) would argue that perk points in general are immersion breaking because the same gun should do the same damage in anyone's hands regardless of training.

I don't mind perks as, again, it functions as a core principle of the game, but again I understand the general point.

-And there's the other candies and various elixirs, mega crush.

A lot of people dislike candy as well, myself included. I don't mind drugs in the game that allow you to perform more super human feats but I wish they made some sense.

Convenience. If I fought my way to the top of a skyscraper, pop those big boxes, and now I have the option of a fast way down, I'm taking it. - more so if I'm encumbered with loot. -There is nothing fun about backtracking through a Poi you've already cleared, only now you're 40% slower.

This is a good argument for keeping it as some POIs are designed poorly from the old POI design process such as Dishong Tower, but I think that is mostly an error in POI development than necessitating a perk to negate fall damage.

Anyhow, there's only 2 reasons a player can handle a fall like that anyhow, 1 they came prepared ohshizdrops.. (Which, there is an argument to be made that they should be parachutes instead- but then people will want to craft them..)
The other is going deep agility.. which is also a substantial investment.

Agility isn't as much of an investment as you might think. It's one of like 3 trees many people go down first for the jump increase which trivializes zombies, but at least it still fits within the confines of logic. The 0 fall damage is icing on the cake in an already decent tree now.

I hope none of this comes across as critical, just offering my counter argument.

I for one appreciate the critique. It allows me to see opposing views and perhaps even allows me or others to soften their stance on things they once believed.

Also, it's not like I would hate the game if they kept it in. I just think the game would be better if they focused it around a core game logic. It's partially why they had to revert tonics and the yeti is due to immersion. It's something that should be looked at when developing new game concepts IMO.

 

[Riamus]

Others like the yeti and yet people complained and it's gone. Some hate jars and now they are back. The forums are for feedback. It's like me saying if don't like my suggestion then don't read the forums.

Not quite the same... the frostclaw can't be avoided without mods, at least not if you're doing horde nights. And to avoid them even when you have horde nights disabled would mean you can't go into the snowy forest. Not having jars can't be "fixed" without a mod. On the other hand, you have a choice whether or not to use that perk or the boot mod or the book that gives you something like 15m additional fall distance at night or the armor that increases fall distance or the book for increased fall distance if you have over 5000 dukes or whatever it is (the 15m might be for this one, but there are two different books). All these different things increase fall distance beyond realism (at least if you combine a couple) even if you aren't using the final parkour perk. And with every one of them, you can choose not to use them if you don't like it. No mods needed at all in order to avoid them. So removing it would have zero effect on you unless you can't help yourself and you just have to get the perk because it's there. This is different from the examples you gave, where you need a mod to change them, or for the first, you need to stay out of the snowy forest and the nearby edges of other biomes and have to disable the horde nights.

Anyhow, yes, you can choose to request something. But everyone who disagrees can also choose to disagree. And considering you started out by saying it was a favorite perk for people but should still be removed... well, you're going to get people who are going to really oppose such a suggestion and you should expect that.

As for me, I've already said why I want it to remain. It's fun. It's also a handy way to get out of a tall building when you are done with it without having to work your way down through the POI. There's no gameplay value to having to run around through a POI to the ground floor from 10+ levels up. You've already cleared the enemies, so there's no danger and it's just spending time for no real reason other than realism for those who care about that. And even without that perk, I still jumped off the skyscrapers. It wasn't hard in most of them to jump down window ledges. Also unrealistic, but it served the same purpose, albeit more slowly.

Now now let's keep the jars out of this .

Let me fix this for you. I'm sure you made a typo....

"Now now let's keep the jars out of this game ."