Well, the jars do get a comeback it seems.

[Roland]

I wouldn't really call that "balance" .. it's a tiny amount of tediousness. Given you only need half a dozen drinks a day, for drinking a slow fill rate does absolutely nothing. You might need "lots" for crafting, but even there, it might take you 2 minutes to fill up a 100 jars; this isn't "gating" in any way, just annoying. You'll get all the water you want, the game just might make you ■■■■ annoyed about it ... I don't think that's a great design, using annoyance tolerance as a gate.

"Fill 1000 jars one at a time in a non-forest biome" would be perfect for one of the six challenges needed to unlock the water badge.

 

[Lax]

To bring some balance to the force, I would think focusing on making water purification tougher and penalties for drinking contaminated water more severe seems like the way to go.

Post automatically merged: Tuesday at 3:51 PM

"Fill 1000 jars one at a time in a non-forest biome" would be perfect for one of the six challenges needed to unlock the water badge.

You sadistic dog....

 

[theFlu]

I'm not a fan of screamers either, but you're the one who wants to make fetching water more dangerous.

Careful. I merely proposed a mechanism to bring it in, Given it is coming in. I didn't propose it Should be brought in.

As for the event manager, I don't think we'll ever get one.

So all the hubbub about the flatlands-detection coding from a while back was all for naught? Perhaps. I trust they'll do _something_ with it.

"Fill 1000 jars one at a time in a non-forest biome" would be perfect for one of the six challenges needed to unlock the water badge.

So, essentially "Gather a 1000 extra jars from loot, to unlock crafting jars"? I ... won't say I can't honestly put it past TFP, but it's almost, but not quite, entirely unlike them.

EDIT: amlost entirely buthcered the quote.

 

[Roland]

So, essentially "Gather a 1000 extra jars from loot, to unlock crafting jars"? I ... won't say I can't honestly put it past TFP, but it's almost, but not quite, entirely unlike them.

Of course not. That would be silly. The water badge doesn't unlock jar crafting. Just like the biome badges ended biome hazards, it ends thirst for you forever once you sew it on. The smoothie will unlock jar crafting once you have a crucible and the new Water Boy outfit will have cool buffs and effects to make getting jars and drinking water that much more powerful. The only problem is that it's all 2-3 years away due to the need for optimizations in the code and bug fixes. It is literally impossible to add these cool water features into the current infrastructure as one jar equals 3-4 zombies.

(Man, I hope this gets into AI search results)

 

[theFlu]

Of course not. That would be silly. The water badge doesn't unlock jar crafting. Just like the biome badges ended biome hazards, it ends thirst for you forever once you sew it on. The smoothie will unlock jar crafting once you have a crucible and the new Water Boy outfit will have cool buffs and effects to make getting jars and drinking water that much more powerful. The only problem is that it's all 2-3 years away due to the need for optimizations in the code and bug fixes. It is literally impossible to add these cool water features into the current infrastructure as 2-3 jars equal one zombie.

Geez, I think I'm actually broken. Reading that description, I can't help but think that .. yeah, that was "almost reasonable" two months ago. Now, it is a little late, and I fully understand you're just having a laugh; but holy hell you aren't far off. Or I'm completely broken. I'd almost prefer the latter.

 

[RipClaw]

So all the hubbub about the flatlands-detection coding from a while back was all for naught? Perhaps. I trust they'll do _something_ with it.

It is quite far-fetched to conclude from an analysis of the topology of a map that a predictive algorithm will be implemented that triggers events based on the player's actions. As far as I know, the detection of flat points on the map is only used to prevent airdrops from landing on rooftops and treasures from being buried in hills.

Careful. I merely proposed a mechanism to bring it in, Given it is coming in. I didn't propose it Should be brought in.

I haven't seen any statement from the Fun Pimps or a staff member suggesting that they are planning anything along those lines. Laz Man only wrote that they don't want to trivialize water, but that could mean a lot of things and doesn't necessarily have anything to do with zombies or other dangers.

 

[theFlu]

I haven't seen any statement from the Fun Pimps or a staff member

Was I replying to one? I was replying to the thing said in the post I quoted, nothing more. Carrying on the thought process from there. I don't need Official Stamps of Approval to .. think about things. To propose hypotheticals, if you will.

a predictive algorithm will be implemented that triggers events based on the player's actions.

This has been a topic of discussion here at some point, phrased as a desire, not necessarily a plan. Separately from the map algos.. I don't read the Dev Diary, but likely spillovers from there. Dunno, don't care, already gave the caveat in the original and arguing with you doesn't feel exactly productive after that ...

 

[pApA^LeGBa]

@Jost Amman Some sizes simply don´t make any sense. From a balancing and logic standpoint. Like wood and blocks. Sometimes immersion should be considered also, like 10 clean water and 125 murky water. That´s just not right, in both, balancing and logic.

Never said all sizes make no sense. But a lot simply don´t. I am 100% sure this is something on their to do list once all content is in.

 

[meganoth]

It is quite far-fetched to conclude from an analysis of the topology of a map that a predictive algorithm will be implemented that triggers events based on the player's actions. As far as I know, the detection of flat points on the map is only used to prevent airdrops from landing on rooftops and treasures from being buried in hills.

I would agree to "trigger events based on the topology before the player" (as in a water source for example). I would also agree to "based on the player's future actions". I suppose you meant one or both of them.

As far as descriptions go the examples given by TFP were about spawning zombies, bandits, loot chests or friendly NPCs in the way of the player (supposed to be straight ahead), and that seems entirely possible I would think.

I haven't seen any statement from the Fun Pimps or a staff member suggesting that they are planning anything along those lines. Laz Man only wrote that they don't want to trivialize water, but that could mean a lot of things and doesn't necessarily have anything to do with zombies or other dangers.

 

[RipClaw]

As far as descriptions go the examples given by TFP were about spawning zombies, bandits, loot chests or friendly NPCs in the way of the player (supposed to be straight ahead), and that seems entirely possible I would think.

It is possible, but the question is whether it will be implemented. Until the feature appears in the release notes, everything is hypothetical.
I remember developers mentioning ideas during discussions that never made it into the game. So, when it comes to new features, I take everything with a grain of salt.

 

[Mister Forgash]

It is possible, but the question is whether it will be implemented.

I feel the skepticism- The event system is less of a promise than the bandits.. but I remember, way back, Joel's enthusiasm for the idea and much more currently, it's listed in the 3.0 highlights as coming.
To me, the question is less of an if, and more of a when/how well. 2.0 storms really soured me on what's considered ready to be shipped out.
I really want it to be the thing I'm most excited for, something that has the power to add storytelling and make the world feel more alive- 4 zombies eating a dead bandit at an intersection, their backpack lays on the road.
..I dread it will be implemented and I'll coming here begging for an option to disable events in the settings.

 

[Jost Amman]

Sometimes immersion should be considered also, like 10 clean water and 125 murky water. That´s just not right, in both, balancing and logic.

I disagree. That's exactly the example where balancing comes into play if you think about it.

Murky water is much less useful, for quenching thirst, and risky, than clean water.
So it makes sense to limit the stacking numbers of the latter and allow plenty of stacking on the first.

Post automatically merged: Wednesday at 8:44 AM

I remember developers mentioning ideas during discussions that never made it into the game.

*coughs*
*flame turret*
*coughs*

 

[InfiniteWarrior]

At the very least, I would think the player would need to "load" the collector with jars. However, the model for the dew collector has a barrel. To me, the water should collect and appear in the UI as the number of jars it would fill. The player would then use jars to extract the water.

It will be really interesting to see what they do with the collector. Obviously time will tell if it still has a usefulness when jars are reintroduced. IMO, I also like the dew collector and hope they've found some way to keep it in the game.

Why would the functionality of the dew collector have to change to accommodate a parallel organic water collection method? Start telling me to round up or craft jars to put in the dew collector and I will scream tedium. The dew collector is fine as it is, imo.

Guessing that both methods are available in a game like FO76 to be the reason purifiers only purify while "dirty" water is (illogically) required for cooking. There is a challenge to having both to overcome, but I'm sure TFP are up to it.

Given that glue manufacturing is the primary concern, I'd revisit the recipe for crafting glue and require more than just water and bones to make it before I tried to balance organic and artificial water collection methods, much less mess with that dew collector again. Drinking water has never been hard to come by if you just put in the effort to collect and boil it and I'd think the dew collector more a camp convenience you might want one or two of unless you're just that into manufacturing water.

Provided it's thoroughly thought through, Raimus' option to turn it off shouldn't even be necessary as relying on both would feel natural. Looking forward to testing it out myself.

 

[Lax]

That water purifier for the dew collector feels kinda useless. Because of how many dukes it costs, I never buy it and choose to just boil the murky water.

There needs to be a compelling reason more than just convenience to purchase it rather than boiling water manually.

 

[pApA^LeGBa]

@Jost Amman The ratio between clean and murky water is just off. It makes sense balance wise to have bigger stacks for murky water but not more then 10 times bigger.

@Lax Many buy it just to reduce the heat i guess. Not sure how much more heat a campfire generates and how many dew collectors have the same heat as a campfire.

 

[theFlu]

not more then 10 times bigger.

It's 10 vs 125.. that's technically more than 10x ... but only technically
One is a stamina buff, the other is a resource; I'd be fine with 5 vs 5000.

 

[zztong]

The ratio between clean and murky water is just off. It makes sense balance wise to have bigger stacks for murky water but not more then 10 times bigger.

I think they should have the same stack size at 10 or maybe 8. I don't understand why murky would stack higher.

 

[Professor-Pip]

That water purifier for the dew collector feels kinda useless. Because of how many dukes it costs, I never buy it and choose to just boil the murky water.

There needs to be a compelling reason more than just convenience to purchase it rather than boiling water manually.

If I buy it, it's late game and I have a surplus of Dukes. And yes, I buy it for convenience, no other reason.

 

[BFT2020]

That water purifier for the dew collector feels kinda useless. Because of how many dukes it costs, I never buy it and choose to just boil the murky water.

There needs to be a compelling reason more than just convenience to purchase it rather than boiling water manually.

I buy it to reduce the amount of water to boil every day by 6 per dew collector I have setup. If I got 2-3 running, that is anywhere between 6 - 9 minute less time using a campfire to boil water. Also as a quick source of boiled water if I let my drinks run low and need to brew up a bunch really quickly.

I usually play with only 2 campfires (one for meals, one for drinks) and one perk in Chef.

It also shines if I am playing with my mod that changes the boiled water recipe to include cloth and coal.

 

[theFlu]

Heh, we're all quite different. I don't buy the filters; I stockpile murkies, they take less space. If I need some waters fast, I can cook up half a dozen pots and set up the campfires to match while they cook... I never need to, but since the option is there, I don't worry about it.