Room for improvement
- Thread starter panson312
- Start date
Soulmonster
Scavenger
I would like for Zombies to take fall damage. It feels incredibly unrealistic that they don't. I guess I know why they don't, but I really dislike it.
Kalen
Survivor
They used to
Soulmonster
Scavenger
Yes, I suppose it was turned off when it made it too easy to build impenetrable bases? Still, it is ridiculous. If that was the case, then they can solve it by brigning in more demos, vultures, yetis, etc, that damage bases so they crumble and/or attack people from the sky/distance, so even tall bases that hurl zombies to their death are vulnerable and will force players to not just hide in a tower.
This requires a completely different behavior algorithm. If desired, I can make a fairly stable base with a long ladder up and a bunch of hammers along the way to throw off the ladder. And calculating the place that needs to be broken so that it all collapses will not be such a simple task.
Soulmonster
Scavenger
I'd like some differences to behavior, too, but I think this could be solved by just increasing the numbers of zombies that can destroy bases, like demos and yetis. Ultimately, in advanced game stage you could still handle this with turrets and traps and feel entirely safe at Blood Moons, but it would make it more unviable to "cheese" the game at earlier stages by hiding in a tower with a strategically placed hammer. But more importantly, it just is super weird that they don't take fall damage.
That's why they don't receive them. It's too easy to create a base for Horde Night with zombie drops. Especially after the hammer appears.
LittleNightma
Survivor
Bandits are coming in 3.0 and story mode is coming in 4.0. More weapons would be nice, but that also means making sure they are balanced too.
EvilPolygons
Survivor
The last time I tested it (in 2.0 I think), I coaxed a zombie to fall off a skyscraper and followed it down in god mode. It fell 10 stories, hit the ground, and took zero damage.
bdubyah
Hunter
EvilPolygons
Survivor
Seems like they still take damage to me.
A recent fix maybe? I'm still on 2.2 and I know I haven't tested fall damage since at least 2.0.
During 1.x I used Khaine's fall damage mod, but he doesn't keep it updated so I switched over to Zombie Fall Damage Fix .
Hah... I just had a thought... it might have been Khaine's mod that was causing the NO fall damage due to it being badly outdated.
EvilPolygons
Survivor
His mod undid the change until it stopped working, yeah. Anyway, I care much more about simulation than I do about game balance when it comes to falling off of buildings. So the vanilla nerf to fall damage rubbed me the wrong way.
If I see a rotting zombie fall off a skyscraper onto concrete, I expect it to pop like a watermelon.
In terms of realism, that's how it should be. But in terms of game mechanics in a building game, it would make the game a lot easier.
Soulmonster
Scavenger
Yep. And if that makes the game too easy then make it harder some other way, like with more demos, automatic sledges that break down quickly, a zombie type that can demolish walls rapidly, more vultures, or whatever is required for balance. I simply don't like highly unrealistic cop outs like zombies not taking damage from falls to prevent things being too easy.
EvilPolygons
Survivor
Don't care, to be honest. Zombies may not be real, but gravity is. I know how gravity affects things and what happens when soft squishy things hit the ground traveling at terminal velocity. I'd rather game balance suffer than have my suspension of disbelief and immersion broken.
But then I'm also able to resist the urge to use cheesy tactics in games -- game balance isn't such an issue if you don't use exploits.
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plzkthxbye
Scavenger
Wouldn't every horde base just be a drop base, then? Or you could clear any reasonably tall POI by building a ~3 block narrow walkway away from the building, really high up, with you waiting on the other side of a couple strong blocks, and nearly all the zombies would crowd that walkway and fall to their death.
I'm not opposed to having zombies take enough fall damage to kill them, I'm just wondering how it could be done without trivializing so much.
Soulmonster
Scavenger
Maybe it isn't possible. But even if is isn't possible, I'd still prefer it to how it is today, because it just bugs me so much that they seem unbreakable.
Maybe changes to AI would be needed. Like, where some zombies wouldn't take the path directly to the player, resulting in them falling off a crowded walkway, but instead attack the base to dismantle it forcing you to deal with that problem somehow. Or maybe there would be a higher proportion of demos and vultures at blood moons, meaning that you would be forced out to fight the demos lest your base be blown up, or you'd have to fight vultures too. Maybe just many more zombies per blood moon would do the trick even if the majority fall to their death.
Again, not saying I have the solution, at all, and I am sure TFP considered all this before eventually making the zombies less vulnerable to falling damage - I am just saying that I would prefer that they could fall to their death (or injury) even if it wasn't possible to then make the blood moons as challenging as they are today.