Why DONT you want jars

[Kyoji]

Second, I prefer to see them work on finishing the game rather than spending time going backwards for the small percentage of people who want them back. This isn't like adjusting 2.0 based on feedback. This is going back to revert something that was changed years ago.

I am the opposite. I think story content is the weakest link in the game. When playing subnautica the story was the least interesting aspect of the game. Ark is the same.

I want a fun gameplay loop and right now the loop is quest turn in quest and quest some more. Even if you randomly go to POIs it's not as fun as the experience years ago. Some of that is nostalgia but some isn't. I don't want to go back in time and bring back every old feature but some things need to be looked at for sure.

There needs to be more randomness injected into the game and things to divert your attention from questing such as random events/encounters. Hordes are a good example.

 

[Lax]

What is this fixation on them? And why not cans or a canteen or thermos?

 

[Kalen]

It is just an educated guess that fewer than half of all players (likely less than 10%) want jars. If I were to make a guess, I would say about 85% don't care either way (and potentially up to 95%). And the remainder is split between those who don't want them and those who do. I could be wrong, but I think it is a good guess. Almost all players who started playing the game in the past few years (after jars were removed) probably don't even think about jars. For players who have experienced jars in this game, I am certain that most don't care how they get water as long as they can do so.

I think its a lot more than you think. Like I said, it was enough that Joel posted about it on reddit....

As far as time spent, if they bring back jars, they aren't going to just add them back as they were before. They will do some change to them. Whether that is something that someone has suggested here (like a chance to break in inventory) or something they choose, they are almost guaranteed to do something different with them from what was there before. That means time spent implementing it and testing it and tweaking it and so on. Look at temperature. That should be just as easy to being back, right? So why isn't it already back? Because they are making changes to it and need time to implement and test and tweak those changes. Bringing back jars is likely to push 3.0 out at last a few weeks by my guess based on the sites TFP does things, and probably closer to 6 weeks. Again, it is a guess. Maybe they do it in a day, but it isn't likely.

Pure speculation.... I think its just as likely they add it back as it was, but with tweaks, like stacking sizes or crafting requirements. Of course they may go all out and make a brand new feature, but I think that isn't likely

If about jars never existed in this game, there would be far fewer people upset about them not being in the game.

I've made that very same point.... but the fact is that they did exist.

 

[Kyoji]

What is this fixation on them? And why not cans or a canteen or thermos?

I think it's because it's the hot topic. A lot of people have discussed it and it's just kind of been seen as a way to go back to the better days before the change to RPG.

I think some thing we lost were better such as parts quality, temperature, darker nights, and smell but I think some things are also good now such as cities and tiles and some of the dungeon POIs. I say some as I think questing is too prevalent now to where anything else is subpar. Obviously the graphics is the biggest thing.

So while I too yearn for some return to form gameplay I also can appreciate newer things added.

 

[Riamus]

I think it's because it's the hot topic. A lot of people have discussed it and it's just kind of been seen as a way to go back to the better days before the change to RPG.

I think some thing we lost were better such as parts quality, temperature, darker nights, and smell but I think some things are also good now such as cities and tiles and some of the dungeon POIs. I say some as I think questing is too prevalent now to where anything else is subpar. Obviously the graphics is the biggest thing.

So while I too yearn for some return to form gameplay I also can appreciate newer things added.

This is it exactly. In the end, jars aren't really important. People just miss how things used to be and that is an easy target. If we are going to bring back anything, I would probably pick using multiple parts to craft and upgrade weapons like what used to be in the game. That would be more interesting and would impact gameplay a lot more than jars.

 What percentage of games that have you drinking stuff give you back an empty jar or bottle? Even if you limit that to only have that use drinks as part of a surgical mechanic and not just a way to gain health or some bonus, it is probably still very low. This is entirely a guess without any data beyond games I personally have played, but I would guess that at least 95% of have with drinks do not give you back an empty container and few people complain. It is mainly because it is a link to the past in this game and people want to hold on to the past.

And if they bring back empty jars, will that really make those who are complaining about them happy? Maybe a little, but not likely for very long. They will realize that having enjoy jars doesn't bring back the experience they had back in A16 or whenever. They will realize they are such a minor thing and don't really matter and will start complaining about something else like LBD. Just my opinion before someone starts pointing it out even though it should be obvious that it is an opinion.

Anyhow, the topic is about why we don't want jars and those two reasons are why I don't want them.

 

[EvilPolygons]

So I wanna see people's thoughs on not having jars and why. Personally i want them for immersion and if implement correctly could add another scarce item. Like imagine you only have 1 jar but 3 slots in the dew collector to collect you water. That would slow things down and make you want to explore.

But your thoughs on why there shouldn't be jars

For the same reason we don't have to craft cloth bags to carry sand and gravel around.

Or oil cans.

Or gas cans.

Or IV bags.

Or syringes.

If it was really about immersion, then all of those other things would bother you just as much as empty jars. But I've never seen anyone post an angry thread about cloth bags or gas cans.

 

[theFlu]

Or oil cans.

That we used to have, empty cans were a part of the recipe for oil.

Or gas cans.

Wouldn't mind having them; but the lack of them isn't stopping me from getting gas out of a barrel into my motorcycle.

Or IV bags.

The blood is already in a bag; I'm more worried it isn't frozen... gief.

Or syringes.

Sure, add a recipe for those as well!

 

[EvilPolygons]

That we used to have, empty cans were a part of the recipe for oil.


Wouldn't mind having them; but the lack of them isn't stopping me from getting gas out of a barrel into my motorcycle.


The blood is already in a bag; I'm more worried it isn't frozen... gief.


Sure, add a recipe for those as well!

Luckily 7DTD is one of the most mod-friendly games around, so if you want cloth bags, oil cans, and glass jars, you can have 'em!

 

[Riamus]

I am the opposite. I think story content is the weakest link in the game. When playing subnautica the story was the least interesting aspect of the game. Ark is the same.

I want a fun gameplay loop and right now the loop is quest turn in quest and quest some more. Even if you randomly go to POIs it's not as fun as the experience years ago. Some of that is nostalgia but some isn't. I don't want to go back in time and bring back every old feature but some things need to be looked at for sure.

There needs to be more randomness injected into the game and things to divert your attention from questing such as random events/encounters. Hordes are a good example.

Saying they should finish the game isn't the same as saying I want a story. I'll do the story once, but I'll ignore it after. I'm not really interested in it. But finishing the game means Steam Workshop. It means a greater chance of people working on mods since they won't have to redo them over and over again. It means no more broken saves with new versions. And although I don't care about that, others do, and it is significant for console players who don't have the choice to not update the game.

As far as fun goes, that is entirely subjective. You prefer the older version. I prefer the current version. Technically, I prefer 1.4 slightly, but I have barely played 2.2 and haven't played 2.3, so I can't comment on those. And based on the changes those made to storms and hazards, I probably would prefer 2.3 over 1.4. Since it is subjective, it isn't really a reason to change things. At least, not without a vast majority who want the change, which isn't likely here. As I said, the vast majority (generally meaning around 75% or more) most likely don't care either way.

I support more randomness in the game. Jars don't bring that, though. Since this is about jars, I won't go into all the ways they could make the game more random, but I support that. That doesn't mean quests don't have to be a focus for players, though. But again, that is a separate topic. I would be happy to discuss those topics in a topic related to those. I just don't want to go off topic here.

 

[pApA^LeGBa]

Because it makes water too easy. That´s why i dislike the dew collector also. Only the method changed, water is still never an issue.

 

[Riamus]

Any chance someone is willing to do a little research? I'm really curious what percentage of hardcore survival games (games that are all about survival and not a mixed bag like this) give you about jars back after drinking something. I know some do, but I am sure some don't. I'm really curious what kind of percentage there is for that. I assume more give you empty containers than don't, but that may not be true. If someone is willing to do a bit of research, I would love to see the results. It won't change my thoughts about empty jars on this game, but I'm still curious.

It anyone does look into it, note that I am not counting have that have empty containers as trash that you can't use other than as scrap or whatever. I am taking about getting containers back after drinking and being able to refill those without scrapping them to make new containers or whatever.

 

[theFlu]

you can have 'em!

I'm on console, you meanie!
(No I'm not.)
But "make your own game" is hardly an argument, when discussing our desires for the vanilla of this game.

 

[NiteVIper]

With being able to make as many dew collectors as you want, I personally don't see the point of having jars anymore. Now they are just a pointless item and waste of space in inventory and storage boxes.

 

[Kalen]

Because it makes water too easy. That´s why i dislike the dew collector also. Only the method changed, water is still never an issue.

But should it be? IMO, water should be an issue early game.... but you eventually solve it. Just like food is an issue early game that you eventually solve.

For the same reason we don't have to craft cloth bags to carry sand and gravel around.

Or oil cans.

Or gas cans.

Or IV bags.

Or syringes.

If it was really about immersion, then all of those other things would bother you just as much as empty jars. But I've never seen anyone post an angry thread about cloth bags or gas cans.

Again, its not about the jars, at least not for me. Its about the ability to collect water. None of those things you've mentioned are the same, there are no open sources of oil to collect, so no need for something to collect it with. There are no open sources of gas, so no need to have something to collect them with.

If they made it so that you go to a lake and directly collect jars of murky water without needing empty jars in the game, that would solve the problem too.... That, however, would be a worse solution than just adding jars back, IMO.

 

[NiteVIper]

If I start out on a good map, usually I'll have a dew collector and a forge made by the end of the first day, every great once in a while, I can even get a workbench squeezed in there too.

 

[EvilPolygons]

But should it be? IMO, water should be an issue early game.... but you eventually solve it. Just like food is an issue early game that you eventually solve.

Again, its not about the jars, at least not for me. Its about the ability to collect water. None of those things you've mentioned are the same, there are no open sources of oil to collect, so no need for something to collect it with. There are no open sources of gas, so no need to have something to collect them with.

If they made it so that you go to a lake and directly collect jars of murky water without needing empty jars in the game, that would solve the problem too.... That, however, would be a worse solution than just adding jars back, IMO.

No open sources of gas and oil? Where do you think the gas comes from when you loot a car? Almost no one drives around with *filled* cans of gas in their cars anymore. Lots of people don't even keep empty cans with them anymore. If they run out of gas they just call AAA or Roadside Assistance, lol. So most of the gas you get out of cars you're probably going to get by siphoning.

Same with oil, although lots of people do still drive around with spare oil in their cars, most just keep it at home in their garage. So the one sure-fire way to get oil in the post-apocalypse would be to get under an abandoned car and pull the oil plug. All the free oil you could want.

Anyway, drawing water from natural sources isn't a "worse" solution. It's how I have my game modded and it's the *best* solution. Because it takes time to gather water bucket-by-bucket and boil it. The work it takes and time it takes is the mechanism that balances it. And you don't need jars for that at all.

 

[beerfly]

It was convenient clutter if I can use that word, gathering them, filled with water or snow, crafting them was easy...

I remember having no problem at all with water, even before day 7 for weeks further. Most of us at some point, throwing them away was just a way to show we don`t need them so much after first week.

 

[Javabean867]

I think glass jars should require 30000k sand, clay, iron and stone per jar. But only give you 1 sand when smelted. Oh, it should take q0 in-game days to craft, and generate so much heat you get screamers every second.

 

[plzkthxbye]

I'm really curious what percentage of hardcore survival games (games that are all about survival and not a mixed bag like this) give you about jars back after drinking something. I know some do, but I am sure some don't.

The Long Dark does (well, cans). I think Green Hell does too? They're not "jars" though, but they're reusable containers for drinking water. I'm not sure if that would count for what you're looking for, or does it have to be, specifically, jars.

Post automatically merged: Tuesday at 6:23 PM

I'm not particularly passionate about this topic, but I suppose I'd rather not have jars back primarily because I think the dew collector system is working fine. I'm a veteran player (by playtime, but 95%+ of my time in the game has been from A20 onward), but I still struggle the first 1-3 days with water, even with dew collectors (I only ever make one dew collector now - maybe that's why). In A20, with jars, I never, ever had an issue with water. In A20, you could make glue with murky water too, which made jars even more 'overpowered' (when compared to the much slower, relatively speaking, rate of getting water with dew collectors (especially a base one, without any mods)).

 

[Riamus]

The Long Dark does (well, cans). I think Green Hell does too?

Yeah, I know many do. But I also know some don't. What I am wondering is what the ratio is.

As far as what counts, reusing cans would count, but a canteen wouldn't. Any game with a canteen will let you reuse it.

I guess it would count if it is something you can carry at least a few of and reuse them. So a canteen doesn't because you normally have one. If it is some specific thing that works like a canteen that you can only have one, or perhaps two or three of, then it wouldn't count. But if you can just collect many jars or bottles or cans or whatever and fill them up over and over again, then that would count.