(2.0) Biome progression is bad on many levels

A

Arcanix

Refugee
  1. Custom maps are inherently busted because there's no option to force biomes to "connect" during map generation
  2. Biome progression should be configurable during game creation -- or given the option to just turn it off
  3. Certain locations should be "safe havens" from the biome penalty, such as traders and cleared hospitals
  4. Vehicles need an item that will prevent biome penalties -- at least put that on the truck, even as a default thing
  5. Biome traversal is inherently annoying, such as the constant coughing in the Burnt Forest
  6. Almost impossible to get to trader Jen from Rekt without clearing the biome challenge tier first, so that should be facilitated in the Pine Forest (more mushrooms, coal, etc.)
 
Yeah The biomes need to have better connections. I 100% agree with 1-4. I like 5 and 6 merely because they make the user aware of their current state.
 
Arcanix said:
  1. Custom maps are inherently busted because there's no option to force biomes to "connect" during map generation
  2. Biome progression should be configurable during game creation -- or given the option to just turn it off
  3. Certain locations should be "safe havens" from the biome penalty, such as traders and cleared hospitals
  4. Vehicles need an item that will prevent biome penalties -- at least put that on the truck, even as a default thing
  5. Biome traversal is inherently annoying, such as the constant coughing in the Burnt Forest
  6. Almost impossible to get to trader Jen from Rekt without clearing the biome challenge tier first, so that should be facilitated in the Pine Forest (more mushrooms, coal, etc.)
Click to expand...
Regarding number 6, it was set up intentionally to have to complete the challenges at least somewhat in the biome where you are trying to get the badge. You can do a lot of things in lower biomes, such as gathering mushrooms, but it'll be a lot faster to do it in the biome itself unless you happened to have already gathered or done whatever it is through normal gameplay.

I think they were changing RWG to make it more likely to place biomes in the right order or at least connected in a way that you can move to them in the right order without going into harder biomes to get there. But that isn't always what happens, especially if you start changing the biome percentages. It seems like something they will do at some point, though. It makes little sense for RWG to make maps that don't follow the biome progression that they want people to follow.

As a note, biome progression is really not important to follow. At least not currently. The only thing tied to it are the open trade route quests, which are entirely optional and can be done at any time (even late game). You can even make or edit a map by hand or with a third party map generator like Teragon that has the traders placed randomly in the biomes like they used to be and the map will play just fine in 2.0. Biome hazards and storms aren't really connected to biome progression, though they have a similar purpose. But you could choose to leave those on and still have traders in random biomes and ignore the open trade route quests either entirely or until you're ready to go to the new trader (who might even be in the same biome as you if they're randomly placed) and it would still work just fine.

Also, remember that you can disable biome hazards and/or storms if you don't like how they work. I'll probably do that myself after I give them a chance.
 
Riamus said:
Regarding number 6, it was set up intentionally to have to complete the challenges at least somewhat in the biome where you are trying to get the badge. You can do a lot of things in lower biomes, such as gathering mushrooms, but it'll be a lot faster to do it in the biome itself unless you happened to have already gathered or done whatever it is through normal gameplay.
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It's pretty trivial to gather all the ingredients for the non-Wasteland smoothies without ever leaving the forest. Mushrooms, aloe and blueberries can be easily farmed, coal isn't particularly a problem, oil shale is available from those big cylinder oil storage POIs, snowballs are available from scrapping ice machines. Water is obvious, and I can't recall if there are any other ingredients, but they're certainly not anything tough to come by (I say this from experience, not just theory.)

Now, the Wasteland smoothie taking radiated mushrooms, acid, and super corn (which is a pain, but thankfully Rekt seems to always sell seeds/actual super corn) is quite a bit more challenging.
 
Vaeliorin said:
It's pretty trivial to gather all the ingredients for the non-Wasteland smoothies without ever leaving the forest. Mushrooms, aloe and blueberries can be easily farmed, coal isn't particularly a problem, oil shale is available from those big cylinder oil storage POIs, snowballs are available from scrapping ice machines. Water is obvious, and I can't recall if there are any other ingredients, but they're certainly not anything tough to come by (I say this from experience, not just theory.)

Now, the Wasteland smoothie taking radiated mushrooms, acid, and super corn (which is a pain, but thankfully Rekt seems to always sell seeds/actual super corn) is quite a bit more challenging.
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Yes, but I was talking about completing the challenges. There are various ways to avoid doing the challenges. But since the OP said they should make it so you can do the challenge in the forest for the burnt forest, that is what I responded to.
 
Riamus said:
Yes, but I was talking about completing the challenges. There are various ways to avoid doing the challenges. But since the OP said they should make it so you can do the challenge in the forest for the burnt forest, that is what I responded to.
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Oh, I misunderstood, then. I've just been making several smoothies, doing the challenges, and only hitting the trader when I'd completed them, so I suppose I wasn't thinking of it that way. I even had an extra Oasis Smoothie, which I sold to Bob for 200 dukes (I made 6, only needed 5.)
 
Arcanix said:
  1. Almost impossible to get to trader Jen from Rekt without clearing the biome challenge tier first, so that should be facilitated in the Pine Forest (more mushrooms, coal, etc.)
Click to expand...

Incorrect. First time to the burnt biome, I just went around the edges and was able to gather enough mushrooms to make two smoothies. Crafted them, and then proceeded into the biome. Those two smoothies allowed me to go Jen's, get one mission, and then complete it. Along the way, I was able to get most of the other challenges done for the badge. I think the last one I have is to mine nitrate and I got about 70% of that done already.
 
I think maybe rephrasing "is bad" to "I do not like it" would be more appropriate, a lot of people including me have a different opinion 🥰

1- Sure
2- I think there is an option to turn biome progression OFF completely if you do not like it? Sorry if I am wrong.
3- I would not like that, that disables the biome danger completely. Making smoothies is easy piecy lemon squeezy, and you can enter and exit the biome a couple of times, and you have completed all the challenges which are already too easy.
4- The same as 3, not for me.
5- The same as 3, already super easy.

Just my opinion 😊
 
Ultimately, it hinges on whether you are a player who engages in multiplayer or single player:
There are numerous reasons why biom progression could be beneficial and good for single-player experiences.
Conversely, there are several reasons why biom progression is detrimental in a multiplayer setting.
 
Outside of the Wasteland badge, I don't see where single or multiplayer would really matter. It's easy to get the resources for all the smoothies outside of the Atomic Smoothie without leaving the forest. I guess in multiplayer someone could theoretically mine out all the ore nodes, but that would be kind of a jerk thing to do.

The Atomic Smoothie could be a real problem in multiplayer if all the mushrooms near the biome edge are harvested. Though players who've already gotten the badge could sell the mushrooms to newer players, I guess, if you have some sort of server economy going on.

Probably completely screwed in PvP, though.

Anyway, having basically completed all the badges now (I still have a couple things to do for the Wasteland one, but I've got enough mushrooms to make 20 smoothies, so not an issue) all of them other than the Wasteland one were basically pointless. Smoothies were easy to get without ever even laying eyes on the biome. The challenges themselves are easy (the roughest one so far was the Frostclaws, but that was just because it took a bit to track down 15 of them.)

If they were all changed to require something exclusive to the biome they're from (maybe guaranteed drops from the "biome" enemy?) they'd be more interesting and more challenging. Gathering the mushrooms for the Atomic Smoothie, while I wouldn't necessarily call it fun (not saying it was not fun either) at least had me actually engaging with the whole mechanic.
 
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