PC Just as unfinished as it was 4 years ago

[meganoth]

[A user] was silenced here and I don't think he broke any rules, but that was a long time ago but I remember it. By silencing him I suspect some sales was lost on this version.

How do you know? When someone breaks the rules, the problematic post is usually removed or edited. So [that user] could have gone totally overboard and you wouldn't know it if the moderator at that time had reacted fast.

We moderators can not warn or ban someone without giving the specific reason which forum rule he breaks and our decisions are often reviewed by other moderators. If you find a moderator that banned you without reason you just have to apply to a different moderator (per personal message please!!) and it gets fixed (and possibly the moderator even would lose his privileges). Most forum posters get a warning for flaming,  but they are so used to posting flames that they don't even recognize that they were flaming. Then they go to another forum and post that they were fined for just posting their opinion. So when someone tells you he was banned for posting his opinion, take a step back and look at how he usually posts and whether he can keep his emotions out of posts. If not, he likely wasn't as innocent as he said.

I have had my posts moved from a original thread about a update moved to a post that was edited to say fixed when I was talking about new issues.

As new people play and come here looking for help, ideas, knowledge or just to talk strategy a lot have been driven off by lack of any official news, posts closed, moved or ignored. Most console posters have less than 50 posts

"lack of official news". Sure. You'll never hear from TFP news about exact release dates except "its done when its done" because they don't know either and don't want to be seen as promising anything when they can't keep that promise later. Old forum users know, because we have not been informed about release dates either. No preferential treatment of PC players here.

"posts closed, moved or ignored". TFP itself is not very communicative. I am almost sure they will not post anything in this thread regarding old stuff about TTG and especially not about financial details for example. Post closed or moved is work of moderators who are NOT employees of TFP. If you think it was not right to move or close a thread, report this.

"only 50 posts". Is that a surprise when the forum has been reset somewhere around 2021 with lots of old stuff cleaned up and a console version exists for only 2 months now?

 

[meganoth]

WOW...you had me going there...thought you had decided to be decent.

You don't know what their deal with TTG was and neither do I. TTG was well known at that time for overpaying for IP, we don't know if they got a flat amount or if they got a percentage of sales.

"if you are being silenced why do I hear you?" yeah...we are done.

What he posted is the information we got in this forum, from people inside TFP, from external people with inside knowledge and from public information. It was a hot topic at the time and any information was discussed and disected and discussed again. Almost anything you read on a forum is second hand information.

I assume your information that TTG was well known for overpaying is from analysts who were discussing the management errors of TTG and why they folded (if not, please correct me). Now afterwards everyone is smarter. The problem was more about that TTG was overestimating how many people they could draw to play an adventure when that adventure got an expensive IP like star wars behind it (and the analysts were refering to that as overpaying). That worked the first time, but not that well all the other times. They were overpaying for IPs where they were the small fish and the IP was mostly too big to make an adventure out of it. A market too small to refinance such big expensive IPs.

This is why adventures are usually not made from big IPs. In fact a german developer of adventure games folded partly because he tried that as well and lost a lot of money by producing adventures that were too expensive, besides being unsuccessful as a publisher.

But wasn't it also said that one of TTG's IPs that kept them afloat while all those adventure games were in the red was 72D2? That seems to indicate that in that case they didn't overpay. Probably because 7D2D was not a big IP, TFP was a small indie company and the game was in a much bigger market.

 

[HammerDano]

What he posted is the information we got in this forum, from people inside TFP, from external people with inside knowledge and from public information. It was a hot topic at the time and any information was discussed and disected and discussed again. Almost anything you read on a forum is second hand information.

I assume your information that TTG was well known for overpaying is from analysts that were discussing the management errors of TTG and why they folded (if not, please correct me). Now afterwards everyone is smarter. The problem was more about that TTG was overestimating how many people they could draw to play an adventure when that adventure got an expensive IP like star wars behind it. That worked the first time, but not that well all the other times. They were overpaying for IPs where they were the small fish and the IP was mostly too big to make an adventure out of it. A market too small to refinance such big expensive IPs. This is why adventures are usually not made from big IPs. In fact a german developer of adventure games folded partly because he tried that as well and lost a lot of money by producing adventures that were too expensive.

But wasn't it also said that one of TTG's IPs that kept them afloat while all those adventure games were in the red was 72D2? That seems to indicate that in that case they didn't overpay. Probably because 7D2D was not a big IP, TFP was a small indie company and the game was in a much bigger market.

I can tell from the edit history that you put a lot of time and thought into your reply, I hope you find this reply has matched that spirit.

First you are correct, my statement about TTG overpaying for IP, was from the piles of analysis dissecting their collapse. It was not intended, in itself, as a slam on TFP.

The IP they overpaid for, connected to this situation, was the Walking dead stuff. They intended for 7 DTD to be the vehicle for it. Obviously, outside of a couple of skins packs, this did not get to happen, they collapsed.

I'm not here to re-litigate if TFP sold the console version in such a way that it was no longer their vehicle. Many on the console side feel they sold the console version to pay for their passion project...the PC version. They have said many times that they are PC gamers making PC games for PC people. (i apologize if I didn't get that slogan exactly right)

I wasn't here to argue about anything...I gave myself until xmas to see what they will do...how much gets fixed...then and only then would I have grounds.

I just wanted to ask about crossplay. THEY DID TEASE IT WOULD BE SOONER THAN LATER. Insinuating it would be done separate from the entire update, sorry to all caps, but, that part keeps getting ignored and still wasn't answered...I apologize if I was wrong assuming that on their own site you guys might be able to find out...it seemed like a reasonable thought. Nope instead it's an instant attack on my intelligence..."it's in the roadmap" like I can't read, and being told console players are just annoying.

I am under no obligation to trust TFP's word. My distrust was earned. I hope we can leave that there.

The console base was shut out of the re-launch. I am not the only person who was summarily silenced...we did not start out angry, we could not even ask basic question without being told to shut up and then banned. I don't want to create more friction, but, it was moderators who facilitated that.

They did Three streams before relaunch and we were not welcome at any of them...for a relaunch to console. Not even one solely for console concerns. Would that not make YOU a little frustrated? TFP appear to refuse to even speak to us.

IMO and mine alone...not speaking for anyone else...now owning it again...this game was not ready to be relaunched to console, and "we" did not get the answers we needed to know it, ahead of launch. It did/does look like TFP needed a cash infusion to finish the game. So we are making the best of it...and we still get treated like ass for supporting this game TWICE.

The game is still as unfinished as it was 4 Alphas ago...that should be concerning to more than the console base. I think it is because PC gamers depend on mostly unpaid  modders to fix every game that gets released. They seem resolved to accept that as being good enough. They say this game gets constant updates, so they see it as TFP are trying to keep them happy...fair enough...but, new skins and another progression rework is not adding the features we are all waiting for. Year after year. So I am at the point where I don't really care what the PC bros say...and that is where the friction can occur. I am not blameless. I admit it. Which is partially how a simple question got blown up into this. The other parts are not on me. I hope this explanation helps.

 

[HammerDano]

We moderators can not warn or ban someone without giving the specific reason which forum rule he breaks and our decisions are often reviewed by other moderators. If you find a moderator that banned you without reason you just have to apply to a different moderator (per personal message please!!) and it gets fixed (and possibly the moderator even would lose his privileges). Most forum posters get a warning for flaming

This is not intended as an attack:

I missed addressing this in my first response. We have been treated as unwelcome... Whether you believe me or not, I know asking a simple question about console performance or features is not flaming anyone. I do understand that there were probably a lot of people asking those questions...that you mods might have felt overwhelmed by the responses, but, that is not an individual persons fault. The volume of console people looking for any clarity should have been a sign TFP needed to at least drop a vid if they could not/would not speak to us directly. It's not like they have not closed comments before. 

They still should find some way to address us in my opinion. I say that because you yourself acknowledged TFP aren't sharing info with PC or anyone else. You guys deal with the debris from that.

 

[Jugginator]

The console base was shut out of the re-launch. I am not the only person who was summarily silenced...we did not start out angry, we could not even ask basic question without being told to shut up and then banned. I don't want to create more friction, but, it was moderators who facilitated that.

They did Three streams before relaunch and we were not welcome at any of them...for a relaunch to console. Not even one solely for console concerns. Would that not make YOU a little frustrated? TFP appear to refuse to even speak to us.

This makes me sad you feel this way, we do respond and talk here and I know I do. What clarity are you needing? I'm not following what's going on here, or maybe I missed something. But we care about all of you, no matter the platform.

 

[HammerDano]

This makes me sad you feel this way, we do respond and talk here and I know I do. What clarity are you needing? I'm not following what's going on here, or maybe I missed something. But we care about all of you, no matter the platform.

Thank you,  I won't lie, it felt good to read that.

The answers we needed were pre launch...we were not allowed to advocate for a more complete game before it got relaunched to us. Console only gets the base game, I think it is fair we would want answers.

We didn't get to point out that the game is no closer to being finished than it was 4 Alphas ago. It appears there is no one, on the PC side, who is advocating and encouraging this conversation. It sure is not the content creators, but, It is valid.

We did not get any communication and we did not get to participate...I am not sure there is anything you can do to change that now.

Post launch...all I wanted to know was if anyone had heard anything about crossplay. TFP teased weeks ago that it would be ready sooner than later. Didn't know just asking would trigger so many people. I don't feel welcome here, but, this is their site. It should be where I can find answers to simple questions.

 

[Jugginator]

Thank you,  I won't lie, it felt good to read that.

The answers we needed were pre launch...we were not allowed to advocate for a more complete game before it got relaunched to us. Console only gets the base game, I think it is fair we would want answers.

We didn't get to point out that the game is no closer to being finished than it was 4 Alphas ago. It appears there is no one, on the PC side, who is advocating and encouraging this conversation. It sure is not the content creators, but, It is valid.

We did not get any communication and we did not get to participate...I am not sure there is anything you can do to change that now.

Post launch...all I wanted to know was if anyone had heard anything about crossplay. TFP teased weeks ago that it would be ready sooner than later. Didn't know just asking would trigger so many people. I don't feel welcome here, but, this is their site. It should be where I can find answers to simple questions.

I'm not sure what you mnean about getting to point that out or any communication or the participate part, we've done a ton of social media posts, dev streams, and posts here in the News section, including all of this information. Console gets the same updates PC does, but what they don't get are experimental versions, they get the stable builds. What is out now isn't the final build, and there's lots to come (hence why it's in the "Game Preview" state for consoles). We also post news about crossplay, the latest being soon, which is true. There is a lot of red tape and requirements to meet for console patches, especially crossplay (there are a ton of rules to follow for both consoles). 

 

[SylenThunder]

They did Three streams before relaunch and we were not welcome at any of them...for a relaunch to console. Not even one solely for console concerns. Would that not make YOU a little frustrated? TFP appear to refuse to even speak to us.

Calling bull@%$# on this. You didn't happen to see all the PAX news on console development? Something they have actively and openly been discussing and showing off for practically a year before launch.

You haven't seen them mention the console in nearly every post leading up to release?

Here, I actually have this documented here in the forum with links to actual real live news posts so you cannot even twist it into me lying about something.



There have been a number of posts since then, plus the entire developer diary thread.

Post launch...all I wanted to know was if anyone had heard anything about crossplay

Pre-Launch it was in the news. There is a big announcement with the roadmap.

TFP teased weeks ago that it would be ready sooner than later

They sure did. It's been ready to go for months. Really just waiting on Sony and MS to approve it. Until that happens, it isn't going to happen. And it isn't like they can give an announcement on when it will happen before they know that it is possible.  I'm sure once Sony and MS give it the green light, TFP will announce it being available with an estimated timeline that is more tight than the current known information.

You need to check your attitude, and maybe take a look at the larger picture. Just because you haven't kept up with things, doesn't mean they have been keeping you in the dark. Maybe take some time to do some research so your claims might actually have some merit.

 

[jyd85224]

I would like to thank Jugginator and Megonoth, you both have been replying with thought and respect. I don't think any of the negative comments about moderators has been pointed your direction. Last version it was Roland who was the bully to console players, this version it's been Sylen.

I appreciate the good replys and discussion but it would be great if we had more moderators who represent and actually play this on consoles to talk to the developers on our behalf. This forum should be a place to speak to fun pimps about the product we purchased and mostly enjoy. Happy customers leads to more sales, between buying for my self and recommendations I have led to 5 copies sold, and I think if those who come here don't get scared off it will lead to a larger community and more sales but we need a voice

Edit Sylen replied while I was writing post and it's about what I would expect

 

[HammerDano]

Calling bull@%$# on this. You didn't happen to see all the PAX news on console development? Something they have actively and openly been discussing and showing off for practically a year before launch.

You haven't seen them mention the console in nearly every post leading up to release?

Here, I actually have this documented here in the forum with links to actual real live news posts so you cannot even twist it into me lying about something.



There have been a number of posts since then, plus the entire developer diary thread.

Pre-Launch it was in the news. There is a big announcement with the roadmap.

They sure did. It's been ready to go for months. Really just waiting on Sony and MS to approve it. Until that happens, it isn't going to happen. And it isn't like they can give an announcement on when it will happen before they know that it is possible.  I'm sure once Sony and MS give it the green light, TFP will announce it being available with an estimated timeline that is more tight than the current known information.

You need to check your attitude, and maybe take a look at the larger picture. Just because you haven't kept up with things, doesn't mean they have been keeping you in the dark. Maybe take some time to do some research so your claims might actually have some merit.

Saying I have a @%$#ty attitude while taking that tone is beyond ironic. It is obvious you are triggered or didn't read thru the entire thread...maybe both. I am not ignorant of current events. There is a big difference between them posting and us getting to have a two way conversation. YES...they have been hyping the game. but what happens to any perceived negative comments? they get deleted off the social media posts...and that is when they allow comments. That is not communication. 

Was there even one stream for console players ahead of a relaunch TO CONSOLE...no there was not. Our complaints are legitimate. We were not welcome and we were not allowed to ask questions. MOD forbid PC people hear a real push back question...they might start expecting Devs to fix games not the modders.

Since you brought it up, there is a big difference between being physically able to sustain crossplay and proving there is nothing game breaking that will interfere with that service in the future, to Sony and MS, I am tired of that over simplified claim, and passing the buck to the platforms.

(and would it have been so hard to just say "we don't know"?)

 

[meganoth]

I'm not here to re-litigate if TFP sold the console version in such a way that it was no longer their vehicle. Many on the console side feel they sold the console version to pay for their passion project...the PC version. They have said many times that they are PC gamers making PC games for PC people. (i apologize if I didn't get that slogan exactly right)

That was probably the right slogan for when they were licencing out the game to TTG, though I don't know if they themselves ever said that aloud ??. It was TTG's job to be there for console players, get the features right for them, make the right adjustments... Whether anyone likes it or not, TFP was a PC centric developer then. But basically the console version was still TFPs game as well, so just looking at it black and white may not be accurate.

But now they aren't anymore, they develop the console version as well, have hired console developers. That slogan is history.

I wasn't here to argue about anything...I gave myself until xmas to see what they will do...how much gets fixed...then and only then would I have grounds.

I just wanted to ask about crossplay. THEY DID TEASE IT WOULD BE SOONER THAN LATER. Insinuating it would be done separate from the entire update, sorry to all caps, but, that part keeps getting ignored and still wasn't answered...I apologize if I was wrong assuming that on their own site you guys might be able to find out...it seemed like a reasonable thought. Nope instead it's an instant attack on my intelligence..."it's in the roadmap" like I can't read, and being told console players are just annoying.

Ah, this is a detail I certainly did miss. So you were asking if that tease means that crossplay might come before "update 1" in a small patch or if "update 1" would be here faster?

Over on discord you may have asked that, but here in this forum nobody could have guessed from your first post about it, sorry: https://community.7daystodie.com/topic/37956-f1-console-disabled-on-xbox-series-x-pc-can-have-it-though/?do=findComment&comment=572792 . Read your own post here and you will see you did not post that specific question.

I don't know by the way, I have no inside knowledge

Again, I am not an employee of TFP, I am just a normal forum user, except that I also moderate.

The console base was shut out of the re-launch. I am not the only person who was summarily silenced...we did not start out angry, we could not even ask basic question without being told to shut up and then banned. I don't want to create more friction, but, it was moderators who facilitated that.

Maybe on some other platform. I am pretty sure not here. The worst that could have happened is a closed thread, but not a ban if someone kept to the forum rules.

They did Three streams before relaunch and we were not welcome at any of them...for a relaunch to console. Not even one solely for console concerns. Would that not make YOU a little frustrated? TFP appear to refuse to even speak to us.

Ok, as the UI is different on console I would have expected them to show it off. Not necessarily in a separate stream, but as part of one. Didn't that happen? I didn't watch the videos so I don't know. I agree this is something they should have done.

IMO and mine alone...not speaking for anyone else...now owning it again...this game was not ready to be relaunched to console, and "we" did not get the answers we needed to know it, ahead of launch. It did/does look like TFP needed a cash infusion to finish the game. So we are making the best of it...and we still get treated like ass for supporting this game TWICE.

The game is still as unfinished as it was 4 Alphas ago...that should be concerning to more than the console base. I think it is because PC gamers depend on mostly unpaid  modders to fix every game that gets released. They seem resolved to accept that as being good enough. They say this game gets constant updates, so they see it as TFP are trying to keep them happy...fair enough...but, new skins and another progression rework is not adding the features we are all waiting for. Year after year. So I am at the point where I don't really care what the PC bros say...and that is where the friction can occur. I am not blameless. I admit it. Which is partially how a simple question got blown up into this. The other parts are not on me. I hope this explanation helps.

TFP tried to get the game on console before they were really finished with the game, correct. I don't know if they needed a cash infusion but I can imagine one big reason was that many console players were begging them to get them an updated version asap. Under every TFP post in twitter a few console users were asking when they would get an update. Another reason may have been that they feared the interest in a 7D2D on console would dry out if they waited too long.

And I can imagine a very practical reason: They still had a relatively large crew working on 7D2D right now that could help the console developers with the porting. When 7D2D is finished on PC those developers would then mostly work on the new game(s) developed by TFP and would not be able to help the console developers.

But that is all just speculation.

The game is steadily progressing at a snails pace. You probably haven't seen the progress, I have. And I also don't think modders are fixing the game. I may not be happy about every change TFP does, but this is still the game I want to play and I don't know any mod I would prefer to vanilla.

There are no features we are ALL waiting for. Everyone waits for different features. The feature I am waiting for is real legendary weapons. Let me guess, you have a different feature you are waiting for, right?

 

[meganoth]

I appreciate the good replys and discussion but it would be great if we had more moderators who represent and actually play this on consoles to talk to the developers on our behalf. This forum should be a place to speak to fun pimps about the product we purchased and mostly enjoy. Happy customers leads to more sales, between buying for my self and recommendations I have led to 5 copies sold, and I think if those who come here don't get scared off it will lead to a larger community and more sales but we need a voice

Except for the SuperModerator moderators are just normal forum users with the function to keep the forum "clean". I don't have any contact with the developers except openly through the forum like everyone else.

There surely need to be more forum users with experience with console, i.e. who can help with problems on console, but experience comes with time. If you stick around long enough, maybe you will eventually be one of them.

To speak to TFP itself, just post here in the forum. It isn't easy as **everyone** wants to speak to them.

 

[HammerDano]

That was probably the right slogan for when they were licencing out the game to TTG, though I don't know if they themselves ever said that aloud ??. It was TTG's job to be there for console players, get the features right for them, make the right adjustments... Whether anyone likes it or not, TFP was a PC centric developer then. But basically the console version was still TFPs game as well, so just looking at it black and white may not be accurate.

First time I heard it was out of Rick's mouth.

Ah, this is a detail I certainly did miss. So you were asking if that tease means that crossplay might come before "update 1" in a small patch or if "update 1" would be here faster? 

I did mean, would it be separate, as I certainly would not expect the Q4 update on the first day of the Q...I mean I would dance a jig, but, wouldn't hold my breath for that.

Over on discord you may have asked that, but here in this forum nobody could have guessed from your first post about it, sorry: https://community.7daystodie.com/topic/37956-f1-console-disabled-on-xbox-series-x-pc-can-have-it-though/?do=findComment&comment=572792 . Read your own post here and you will see you did not post that specific question.

I don't know by the way, I have no inside knowledge

thank you

Maybe on some other platform. I am pretty sure not here. The worst that could have happened is a closed thread, but not a ban if someone kept to the forum rules.

I was refering to the discord streams pre launch. I apologize for any conflation between which mods.

Ok, as the UI is different on console I would have expected them to show it off. Not necessarily in a separate stream, but as part of one. Didn't that happen? I didn't watch the videos so I don't know. I agree this is something they should have done.

thank you...they did not. we were told they are the same version so shut up about it.

TFP tried to get the game on console before they were really finished with the game, correct. I don't know if they needed a cash infusion but I can imagine one big reason was that many console players were begging them to get them an updated version asap. Under every TFP post in twitter a few console users were asking when they would get an update. Another reason may have been that they feared the interest in a 7D2D on console would dry out if they waited too long.

I really don't know what to think about that. Since we are largely ignored, I doubt they were worried about it, but, concede you may be right about some of that.

And I can imagine a very practical reason: They still had a relatively large crew working on 7D2D right now that could help the console developers with the porting. When 7D2D is finished on PC those developers would then mostly work on the new game(s) developed by TFP and would not be able to help the console developers.

I have no idea how versatile those extra people are or how they are being utilized. I'd like to think that is the case, but, also can see them using us as free beta testers.

But that is all just speculation.

The game is steadily progressing at a snails pace. You probably haven't seen the progress, I have. And I also don't think modders are fixing the game. I may not be happy about every change TFP does, but this is still the game I want to play and I don't know any mod I would prefer to vanilla.

We'll have to agree to disagree. Every Alpha I hear the same refrain...I hate the rework, some of the skins are cool, can't wait for ________ to update the mod pack for ______ and _________. What I don't hear is any effort to push TFP to add the story, bandits, a good weather system.

There are no features we are ALL waiting for. Everyone waits for different features. The feature I am waiting for is real legendary weapons. Let me guess, you have a different feature you are waiting for, right?

I get what you are saying, but, I hope you acknowledge that the Story Line, Bandits and a working weather system have been long overdue.

I agree about the tier 6 gear...it ain't legendary.

 

[bdubyah]

What I don't hear is any effort to push TFP to add the story, bandits, a good weather system.

Because again........roadmap. If they give me a roadmap that has those things listed I'm not gonna sit here and complain about them and ask when and other nonsense. They literally have a weather rework listed for the next main update. You mention the roadmap so I know you have seen it, yet your posts suggest you haven't. It's confusing.

 

[HammerDano]

Because again........roadmap. If they give me a roadmap that has those things listed I'm not gonna sit here and complain about them and ask when and other nonsense. They literally have a weather rework listed for the next main update. You mention the roadmap so I know you have seen it, yet your posts suggest you haven't. It's confusing.

There was no roadmap after Alpha 19, 20 or 21...just the same zero progress hidden behind new skins and another progression rework. Over and over with no push back...or did the people pointing that out get the same treatment console people get?  only some of the content creators even grumble on stream about it. but don't say a damn thing to TFP when they have a chance, because they want access, it is a sycophantic relationship...what do I expect? Didn't it @%$# you off they tried to gaslight everyone into thinking Alpha 22 was ALWAYS going to be 1.0? I think if you could put yourself in our position, where we got cut off, then ignored, you might get what we are saying.

 

[jyd85224]

Old version I would have had my base MD whipped a dozen times after this many hours so I don't agree with the new topic name

 

[Crater Creator]

I've cleaned up the thread. We need all users to comply with the rules going forward, which includes:

• Do not flame other users (call people names, lodge insults or disrespectful remarks, etc.)
  
• How the forum is moderated (what threads or posts got moved or locked, who got warned or banned, etc.) is not up for discussion.
  
• Accusing the developers of lying about the game is considered doom & gloom, which is against the rules.
  

If you see a problem with someone’s post, don’t perpetuate the problem with a reply. Report it, and the moderators will review it.

 

[meganoth]

There was no roadmap after Alpha 19, 20 or 21...just the same zero progress hidden behind new skins and another progression rework. Over and over with no push back...or did the people pointing that out get the same treatment console people get?  only some of the content creators even grumble on stream about it. but don't say a damn thing to TFP when they have a chance, because they want access, it is a sycophantic relationship...what do I expect? Didn't it @%$# you off they tried to gaslight everyone into thinking Alpha 22 was ALWAYS going to be 1.0? I think if you could put yourself in our position, where we got cut off, then ignored, you might get what we are saying.

You are correct there was no roadmap for the alphas. But I can explain why that didn't bother many players (at least in this forum): Because we got a fresh new version of the game for free every year. Similar to a service game, but for free. For us EA was like experiencing multiple parallel worlds. In some worlds the game had actions skills, in others perks. In some worlds crafting weapons was done with weapon parts, in others through combining them, ... Each new version felt fresh and it was nice to play with the changes and the new features (that you think don't exist )

And all the while the game was growing, more POIs and content, for example suddenly 1000 blocks to craft instead of 100. I do not agree with your assessment of zero progress. Progression rework happened when some mechanism wasn't working as it should and that is also progress. Example: Weapon crafting in A17 had major faults, so in A19 or A20 it was reworked into what it is now, without the faults. This is what alpha development often does, replacing mechanisms for hopefully better ones. Every game developer does that in alpha development, but almost all of them do this behind closed doors.

So in general we are very pleased with this EA arrangement. Now, a roadmap? I can only speak for myself, but I don't care much for a roadmap if at the end of the road I get a good present. 

Also they never said a22 was always going to be 1.0. They said something like "we decided it is the right time to call the next version 1.0".

 

[HammerDano]

You are correct there was no roadmap for the alphas. But I can explain why that didn't bother many players (at least in this forum): Because we got a fresh new version of the game for free every year. Similar to a service game, but for free. For us EA was like experiencing multiple parallel worlds. In some worlds the game had actions skills, in others perks. In some worlds crafting weapons was done with weapon parts, in others through combining them, ... Each new version felt fresh and it was nice to play with the changes and the new features (that you think don't exist )

My point was that PC players treated those updates as "progress" and we were no closer to a finished game.  Which is/was Hyperbole on my part...they did add POI's, but, did not put us any closer to a finished game...and by that I mean Bandits, a working weather system and the story line they want to add.

I was also pointing out there has been no public push back on the snail pace, which I think has been hidden behind new skins and progression reworks. I will continue to push back on the idea there has been no dependence on the modders by the player base. TFP at least partially depend on content creators to keep both bases interested in this game. They all use mods.

Also they never said a22 was always going to be 1.0. They said something like "we decided it is the right time to call the next version 1.0".

I truly appreciate what you have done to help facilitate conversation, but, that is not true. They did say it. Their eventual explanation was that "it was how it was referred to internally". I could easily concede it can be hard to walk back misspoken words. But, not that it did not happen. 

 

[BFT2020]

I might have missed something, but when they talked about 1.0, it was always about leaving Early Access / console release along with the roadmap showing 3 additional major updates for the game post 1.0.  At least that was the ones I saw (I might have missed some announcements).

https://7daystodie.com/alpha-exodus-leaving-early-access/

One thing I noticed was that a lot of players assumed that 1.0 or leaving Early Access meant that the game was finished.  And I can see why as naming conventions are not always the same in this industry.

For me, the 3 major updates were more of a clue that the game was not going to make any more large scale changes to existing mechanisms - those existing mechanisms will probably be fine tunned / bug quashed / balanced.  There was still development work going on with Storm's Brewing, A New Threat, and the Road Ahead planned updates, so I never associated 1.0 release as the final game - just as a significant milestone where they released a detailed plan on future updates with projected release dates and a confirmation that there is an end in sight for 7D2D development (so no more jokes about A42   )