PC What was the point of the water change?
- Thread starter GlassDeviant
- Start date
Rotor
Well-known member
meilodasreh
New member
Really, no need to feel offended.
I was just trying to express my opinion to BFT2020 before, that when somebody starts a topic about what he thinks about the game, it should be disscussed contentwise, sharing thoughts about the pros and cons of the idea/concept/suggestion.
And responds like "the devs don't want it" just add nothing substantial to such a discussion.
Regardless of how true in may be that case, this "reason" is kinda hollow and could be used as a universal argument to shut up any topic...so not very good culture of debate.
BFT2020 kind of misunderstood my point too and also acted somewhat offended (well might be because the topic of empty jars is really polarizing, though my point is about discussions in general)
And then the minute he was switching over to actually discuss and share his point of view, then you took over and did the "they don't want it" thing to him.
And really that's some funny irony, isn't it?
So, I hope I did clarify myself and that we're good.
Maharin
Well-known member
BFT2020
Well-known member
That's not murky water in those......
Yeah, in my thought process, I always start with via a mod approach and then see if it makes it way to vanilla. By going this route, I can always have a way to get what I want from the game
I had thought BFT's original point was misunderstood and that was that there were already at least 4 threads on this topic and why did we need another.
Considering this @%$#ing convo won't die I guess we did.
You're right, who thought empty jars would be so polarizing. Especially when I can think of a lot more things that bug me more that need fixing.
I mean I hated it at first as much as anyone. I remember reading it in the change notes and thinking "what a pointless and stupid change" and then starting to play and being a bit lost (as usual because, face it, they just about re-invent the game every alpha...so besides the water there is a lot going on to relearn).
Then I adjusted and adapted and now I couldn't give a @%$# less. It just honestly doesn't bother me and it is what it is and I just do what I need to do. Yeah, I hate making 200+ rolls of duct tape so I can get a pair of t6 junk turrets, drone and maybe a sidearm. Not enough to be bothered to mod the recipe costs (which would be trivial really) because once I've done that in a given game, I am not going to do it again.
I select T6 quest rewards based on how many dukes they are worth since I am going to sell them all back anyway. There just comes a point where it isn't worth worrying about.
I also don't feel the need for huge dew collector farms and I don't understand the outcry about screamers. I feel like I don't get enough screamers for what I run these days, I mean I've got 2 fires, 2 forges, 2 mixers, chem, & workbench going frequently. The heat from a handful of dew collectors is pretty irrelevant.
All that being said, I do think they need to find some way to let us use the bucket in recipes and also snow. I have all this useless snow because one can only make so many smoothies, and I can't even remake it into terrain to fill the constant holes being shot into it around my base.
By all means, everyone continue. I'm not looking to shut down anyone's opinion, just presenting mine.
Rotor
Well-known member
zztong
Well-known member
That's where I landed too. I enjoy the convenience in not having empty jars, but loathe the inability to carry water away from a water source. But since I can mod the game to let me pull murky water bottles from water sources, I don't feel like fighting it.
TFP's version of the game without empty jars is quite playable and the 2-day water struggle is interesting. I feel like I got an equally interesting struggle by removing all food and water from the starting gear combined with the water source mod mentioned above. I'm good playing either way, though I prefer my modded experience.
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4sheetzngeegles
Well-known member
Some of the conversations remind me of the matrix. What is real?
Welcome to the desert of the real.
Player: Where do the empty jars go.
TFP: Do not try and find the empty jars. That's impossible. Instead... only try to realize the truth.
Player: MmHmm, What is the truth?
TFP: There are no jars.
Player: WTF, do you mean there are no jars? I've got one right here. SEEEEE!!!!
TFP: You'll see: It is not the jars that are disappearing, it is only yourself.
Player: Whuh Da..... Poof.
TFP: Told Ya so
Welcome to the desert of the real.
Player: Where do the empty jars go.
TFP: Do not try and find the empty jars. That's impossible. Instead... only try to realize the truth.
Player: MmHmm, What is the truth?
TFP: There are no jars.
Player: WTF, do you mean there are no jars? I've got one right here. SEEEEE!!!!
TFP: You'll see: It is not the jars that are disappearing, it is only yourself.
Player: Whuh Da..... Poof.
TFP: Told Ya so
Jost Amman
Well-known member
4sheetzngeegles
Well-known member
I agree with you and Bruce Lee "My childhood hero".
Something is definitely flowing somewhere.
But, withouta cup, bottle, teapot, or jar. In the end, its all just
a fluid discussion.
Artfu1D0dger
New member
I logged into this forum after years just to complain about this
not even going to bother with presenting logic and reason just going to say this:
bring back the jars and all the old methods of collecting/making water
I do like the addition of rain collectors, but having them produce 'heat' especially at the rate they collect water (which is reasonable) is ridiculous
conclusion: bring back the jars and mechanics, leave the rain collectors without the heat production
The new mechanics are not reasonable.
not even going to bother with presenting logic and reason just going to say this:
bring back the jars and all the old methods of collecting/making water
I do like the addition of rain collectors, but having them produce 'heat' especially at the rate they collect water (which is reasonable) is ridiculous
conclusion: bring back the jars and mechanics, leave the rain collectors without the heat production
The new mechanics are not reasonable.
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Artfu1D0dger
New member
Jost Amman
Well-known member
Yeah, nowadays people simply can't play with the cards they're given.
Too hard? ... Mod it! :frusty:
RipClaw
Well-known member
Too easy? Mod it!
You want hundreds of zombies on the streets? Mod it!
You want feral radioactive zombies on day 1? Mod it!
You want to die 20 times a day? Mod it!
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binf_shinana
New member
Mod it!
バニラの範囲内で遊ぼうとすると、難易度設定で変化しない部分が問題になる面が確かにあります。
・おそらく、雑誌システムをどの難易度設定でも成立させるように、アイテム出現量が固定になったいくつかのルートボックス
・難易度設定にかかわらず肉が取れる量が変わらない動物
・水の入手量についても（露収集機で手に入る水の量は、難易度設定の影響を受けませんので）
(google translation)
Mod it!
If you try to play within the vanilla confines, there are definitely some aspects that don't change depending on the difficulty setting that become a problem.
- Possibly some loot boxes with a fixed amount of items to make the magazine system work on any difficulty setting
- Animals whose amount of meat remains the same regardless of the difficulty setting
- Regarding the amount of water obtained (the amount of water obtained from the dew collector is not affected by the difficulty setting)
バニラの範囲内で遊ぼうとすると、難易度設定で変化しない部分が問題になる面が確かにあります。
・おそらく、雑誌システムをどの難易度設定でも成立させるように、アイテム出現量が固定になったいくつかのルートボックス
・難易度設定にかかわらず肉が取れる量が変わらない動物
・水の入手量についても（露収集機で手に入る水の量は、難易度設定の影響を受けませんので）
(google translation)
Mod it!
If you try to play within the vanilla confines, there are definitely some aspects that don't change depending on the difficulty setting that become a problem.
- Possibly some loot boxes with a fixed amount of items to make the magazine system work on any difficulty setting
- Animals whose amount of meat remains the same regardless of the difficulty setting
- Regarding the amount of water obtained (the amount of water obtained from the dew collector is not affected by the difficulty setting)
Artfu1D0dger
New member
hey mr. big brain, a few years ago i rewrote the entirety of pretty much every .xml file in the config directory
it gets old having to rewrite the entire game whenever the devs like to make big brained changes like adding food poisoning to all the cooked dishes
also, i just finished putting the old jar/water mechanics back in the game
but thanks for the insightful comment
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Jost Amman
Well-known member
rateds2k
Member
Last I checked this game is in Alpha, Everything is subject to change. You complain that it gets old having to constantly change stuff, but you know it is an Alpha. Me thinks you just like to complain
meilodasreh
New member
good point. On the other hand, the term "alpha version" is in this case - if you look at the actual definition in IT business - not really applicable/fitting anymore.
An alpha version of a software should be a buggy, contentless, unstable mess of a crude framework that's not meant for public use.
7D2D A21, the game at it's current state, imo is a fully functional, stable running version. As was A20 before, and even looked further back.
If TFP were EA they'd released the game as "gold" at maybe A8, and sold you all following alphas as full-price content additions.
I don't get why they still define it as "alpha", the many years of development and amount of alphas...there is some time where you just have to stop experimenting and changing main game mechanics, because the game is already far developed, regardless what term you use to define it's state.
I'd be fine if they added bandits to A20 and call it done, but instead they completely changed the progression system, really a central element of the game.
Yes, it had it's flaws, but really, in the end it worked fine. What exactly did they have against it to make that step?
The previous "alpha" was/is actually accessible for the public, and so "proven by the user", and with great acceptance and success.
The game was already around top 10 in the steam statistics, so it wasn't really that bad that it obviously seemed to be in need of a bigger change, was it?