PC If A POI Has Zombie Dogs, It Should Be Minimum Tier 2

[unholyjoe]

Spoiler

1. the amount of posts has no bearing on how much game experience someone has. the poster may or may not even have 10 hours in the game.

2. if a newbie/fresh spawned character goes into a t1 and just started the game with no armor or good weapons... then he is trespassing and the owner has the right to protect his property so you need to leave before he sicks the dog(s) on you.

3. if you do hear the dogs... run.

4. if death is the result... chalk it up to LBD (learn by dying) and try not to repeat history.

seriously tho... i know what you are saying but the easiest poi(s) are T0 or just simple little partial structures. T1s and above are meant to give some level of game play and or difficulty for questing or investigating and its up to the player to play in that to which he/she can handle.

if the T1 is just so irresistible at first, then player needs to be better prepared for it. the new skull system in the HUD should cause the player to think before leaping.

now the other serious question is... which T1 poi exactly had the dog in it.

FREE Tip... if a poi has a dog house on it... be very suspicious.. same as peaking on a roof and seeing a nest... may or may not have vultures..

oh and i am seriously not being offensive here either... hence the smileys

 

[warmer]

dogs are why I always keep some frame blocks in my toolbelt. Fast get away.

If you play like every backyard has a dog, you are much less surprised. Ones inside are a serious pain though. Play the floor is lava. That gives you a little move time to get distance between you.

 

[BFT2020]

Good, because I don't mean any, but the fact remains, I would hope a dog in a t1 POI wouldn't be any challenge for you, otherwise it would be a real disaster for new players.  But I also mean by this that your perspective might be based on experience of knowing how to deal with things and dogs, while a new player in taking on a t1 POI with a dog is likely going to end up dog food especially if any other zombies or whatnot are involved. I just don't think it's balanced, t2+ or whatever I'm perfectly fine with.

The thing is though, whether you are a veteran or an amateur, the best way to learn is to fail and respond to that failure.

If you go into any POI in this game thinking failing the quest or having to retreat is not an option, then what have you really learned?  You are basically just limiting what options you have in the game.  Just like if you think the only worthwhile food is bacon & eggs and meat stew, you limited yourself to what else is out there.

I was once an amateur too, I wasn't born a 7D2D veteran; I learned how to play the game through dying and trying new things.

And yes, I would still have the same opinion on T1 and Zombie dogs even if I just bought the game.  Dying in this game is never a failure, but a learning experience.

 

[Vaeliorin]

Spoiler

1. the amount of posts has no bearing on how much game experience someone has. the poster may or may not even have 10 hours in the game.

2. if a newbie/fresh spawned character goes into a t1 and just started the game with no armor or good weapons... then he is trespassing and the owner has the right to protect his property so you need to leave before he sicks the dog(s) on you.

3. if you do hear the dogs... run.

4. if death is the result... chalk it up to LBD (learn by dying) and try not to repeat history.

seriously tho... i know what you are saying but the easiest poi(s) are T0 or just simple little partial structures. T1s and above are meant to give some level of game play and or difficulty for questing or investigating and its up to the player to play in that to which he/she can handle.

if the T1 is just so irresistible at first, then player needs to be better prepared for it. the new skull system in the HUD should cause the player to think before leaping.

now the other serious question is... which T1 poi exactly had the dog in it.

FREE Tip... if a poi has a dog house on it... be very suspicious.. same as peaking on a roof and seeing a nest... may or may not have vultures..

oh and i am seriously not being offensive here either... hence the smileys

As I mentioned, I'd already cleared a T3 POI just before, so it's not like I can't handle a T1.

Anyway, the POI was The Purser Residence, and apparently the dog is a fairly rare spawn, because I reset the POI 5 times, and never saw it again.

But things like this

are pretty ridiculous.  There's no way you're going to see that dog before you're right on top of it.  In a T2 or higher, fine, whatever.  In a T1, that's just cruel.  And the only reason I'm on the roof is because I knew the dog was there, and was trying to find it and kill it before it killed me.  There's literally no other reason to go up on the roof.

Dying in this game is never a failure, but a learning experience.

Dying in any game is failure.

 

[meilodasreh]

be very suspicious

If it was only that, ok.

Yeah, it should make you suspicious when a poi is called "Husky something...".

And also yeah, it should make you even more suspicious when you see many bone piles in the attic.

But it is still unnecessary to conceal the dog in an invisible compartment behind a seemingly solid, doorless wall.

And there are many other examples.

I really don't like that in general, also with zombies,

cause it just feels cheesy to put dogs or zombies into this kind of "boo-effect places"

Make them crash through a door or a window when you trigger the volume, that's fine and I'm willing to poop my pants in these moments.

Make them seem to fall/crawl out of ventilation ducts, maybe chimneys and so on, and I'll be happily changing my undies again.

There are many options.

But having them coming out of solid walls, for me that is annoying and immersion breaking and not a funny scare. 

 

[canadianbluebeer]

Dogs are just annoying.

Yes, in the first few days they can also be fatal.

Guns! Look for'em, or make them. (pipe guns)   Save yer ammo for them.

Vultures now, the stupid things get right in your face so you CAN'T hit them!

Gotta wait until they lift up a bit.

(and yeah, you get contusions, concussions, infected, bleeding all from one damned bird!

This is in the mid 40s, in Q3 steel armor.  hrmph)

Get some padded armor asap though. even Q1 helps against them.

I don't panic on them anymore. Just "Bad Dog! you got a nibble" 

(a Q1 pipe shotgun to the face of the dog... heh.  Vultures, just gotta do some batting practice. 

oh, there is one POI where you get into the attic and a couple dogs come charging at you....

and trigger the mines that are in the way.  hee-hee)

Rooftops:  I ALWAYS assume there is a vulture up there!  That way any surprises are pleasant.

 

[unholyjoe]

annoying yes, but doable as long as you keep your head and just look around... there is Almost another way to do something.

i show in my vid as a level one no points i dealt with the same dog at the same trailer park but in the burnt biome so i had to watch the embers and not burn myself..

i didnt one shot him but he got up and attacked the trailer door which gave me the chance to kill him with the 2nd shot... so on a one on one basis and keeping cool about it... they can be dealt with.

i do want to add that i am not a professional and yes rover was sacrificed in this test.


Spoiler

 

[Vaeliorin]

Yeah, it's easy if you know it's there.  But there's almost no chance you would have ever seen that walking through the POI normally until it was attacking you.  That's my real issue.  There's that Pass 'n' Gas POI T1 that has a dog in it, but it's easily visible and able to be killed before it attacks.  That doesn't bother me at all.

Like I said, I killed that trailer park dog easily when I first went through that POI in that playthrough (I reset the POI to get the screenshot) because I knew it was there somewhere, so I climbed up on top of the trailer trying to find it (after having first gone all the way around the outside of the POI, snuck through the middle of the POI and still not seeing it.)

If you didn't know it was there, it'd be on you before you even realized.  Maybe some people would see it through that little gap and realize what it was, but I think the number would be very few.

Honestly, get rid of the cobblestone palette in front of it, and I'd have no real issues with that particular dog.

 

[BFT2020]

Dying in any game is failure.

Not having fun in the game you are playing is a failure, dying is just part of the gaming experience.  Failing is just an opportunity to learn.  If you keep doing the same thing though and keep dying, well............

 

[Vaeliorin]

Not having fun in the game you are playing is a failure, dying is just part of the gaming experience.  Failing is just an opportunity to learn.  If you keep doing the same thing though and keep dying, well............

Dying means you didn't solve the puzzle the game presented you, so you failed.  You might learn something from that failure, but it's still a failure.

 

[Survior]

Sorry for slightly off-topic but related--

The whole POI aspect of the game leans WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY to heavy on "boxed" up zombies in general, it's boring.

WHO THE HELL BOXED UP ALL THE ZOMBIES?!

Zombies should be on the floor or behind doors or whatever, but "zombie crates" are lame.

 

[theFlu]

I did read the thread, but mostly for the opening suggestion.. I don't mind dogs that much, IMO they can and should be anywhere.

I wouldn't mind tying their existence to difficulty settings, a bit. So, a T1 POI on default difficulty => no dogs.

Doggos would be a good enemy to scale with difficulty overall; they're actually "more difficult" without needing to be real bullet sponges.

 

[Roland]

The solution is easy. If the POI has a dog in it then the danger indicator could show a dog skull instead of a human skull....

EDIT: I thought I'd get laughs for this joke instead of likes. I'm not in favor of the danger indicator and definitely wouldn't want hints of dogs inside!

 

[Scyris]

How about someone who has been playing for 5-10 years stops complaining the game is too easy one day1 for their tastes?

if anything the game needs to be made even harder as a whole, not just enemies, but other aspects like survival etc, its far FAR to easy to get self sufficent in 7dtd. Usually by day 2 in vanilla I am totally self sufficent, thats too fast. The game also scales so slowly that you easly vastly outgear the game fairly early, usually within the first 5 days. I mean I had a vanilla game where on day 20 on warrior difficulty, I still was using a wooden club and was basically 2 shotting zombies with a normal swing, do get the odd ferals, but they were super rare.

The solution is easy. If the POI has a dog in it then the danger indicator could show a dog skull instead of a human skull....

I'd rather make them learn how to do deal with it instead of cave in and make it easier. I mean some of the dog placements in A21 took me by surprize but you know what? this only happens once, once you know there is possibly a dog in that poi you then take precautions to deal with it. If they are getting their butt kicked repeatly by the same dog in the same poi, thats a player skill issue, not a game issue.

Could you imagine the players today playing a16.4? back when day 4 or 5 always had a guarnteed dog wandering horde of like 6+ dogs. Everyone hated it, but after the first time, we knew it was coming so we prepared for it, and it became much less of an issue.

If I did have to pick one major issue with dogs is the fact they move pretty much silently, and you usually have no idea its even there until it hits you, or it hits a block trying to get to you. Most other enemies are easy to hear them walking around, other than the dogs, and well bears too.... actually most of the animals need to make louder walking sounds to notify the player they are around at least for the agressive ones.

 

[Scyris]

Spoiler

1. the amount of posts has no bearing on how much game experience someone has. the poster may or may not even have 10 hours in the game.

2. if a newbie/fresh spawned character goes into a t1 and just started the game with no armor or good weapons... then he is trespassing and the owner has the right to protect his property so you need to leave before he sicks the dog(s) on you.

3. if you do hear the dogs... run.

4. if death is the result... chalk it up to LBD (learn by dying) and try not to repeat history.

seriously tho... i know what you are saying but the easiest poi(s) are T0 or just simple little partial structures. T1s and above are meant to give some level of game play and or difficulty for questing or investigating and its up to the player to play in that to which he/she can handle.

if the T1 is just so irresistible at first, then player needs to be better prepared for it. the new skull system in the HUD should cause the player to think before leaping.

now the other serious question is... which T1 poi exactly had the dog in it.

FREE Tip... if a poi has a dog house on it... be very suspicious.. same as peaking on a roof and seeing a nest... may or may not have vultures..

oh and i am seriously not being offensive here either... hence the smileys

That tip is the best way to save your butt, pay attention, do you see a dog house somewhere in the poi? that usually denotes a possible dog spawn somewhere in it, I been noticing that for a while, it doesn't mean its guarnteed to have one, just that it may, for example Joe's Usa can sometimes have a dog spawn that aggros you from a hidden spot, but it also has a doghouse in the "room" area this may happen in. I see a doghouse and I get ready to pull out a gun or nerd pole up a wall at a moments notice. Dogs have counters, players just need the skill to be smart enough to do it.

As I mentioned, I'd already cleared a T3 POI just before, so it's not like I can't handle a T1.

Anyway, the POI was The Purser Residence, and apparently the dog is a fairly rare spawn, because I reset the POI 5 times, and never saw it again.

But things like this



are pretty ridiculous.  There's no way you're going to see that dog before you're right on top of it.  In a T2 or higher, fine, whatever.  In a T1, that's just cruel.  And the only reason I'm on the roof is because I knew the dog was there, and was trying to find it and kill it before it killed me.  There's literally no other reason to go up on the roof.

Dying in any game is failure.

I dunno the fact there is a dog kennel you can easly see should make you be cautious in that poi, them and dog houses usually are only in poi's where dogs CAN spawn. Again its not a game issue, its a player issue, the devs have those deco ojects there I feel to notify the player there might be a doggo, its up to the player to realize this and plan for it. Also you have a machine gun on your bar, dog jumps you? pull that out and shoot it in the face. Anyone can make a pipe machine gun on day 1 and ammo is NOT hard to find for it. Its one of the first things I craft a bit into my playthru specifically to deal with stuff like dogs.

 

[Vaeliorin]

I dunno the fact there is a dog kennel you can easly see should make you be cautious in that poi, them and dog houses usually are only in poi's where dogs CAN spawn. Again its not a game issue, its a player issue, the devs have those deco ojects there I feel to notify the player there might be a doggo, its up to the player to realize this and plan for it. Also you have a machine gun on your bar, dog jumps you? pull that out and shoot it in the face. Anyone can make a pipe machine gun on day 1 and ammo is NOT hard to find for it. Its one of the first things I craft a bit into my playthru specifically to deal with stuff like dogs.

Yeah, I didn't have any 7.62 ammo.  That was literally the second POI I stepped foot in in that world.  Again, my problem isn't inherently with dogs, it's with hidden dogs.  I can take out dogs Day 1 just fine if I see them before they're on top of me.  In A20 I would usually roam the downtown of a city Day 1 collecting all the magazines, fairly regularly killing dogs in the streets.

Making the dogs "sleep" now makes them even harder to spot.  Like I said, the first time I spotted that dog there (I reset the POI for the screen shot) I didn't even realize it was a dog at first, it looked like part of the pile of junk that was there at that time.  Granted, I'm not the most observant person in the world, and my eyes don't work as well as they used to, but dogs are so much more of a threat than most zombies you'd encounter at that level, I think they need to be easily seen in low tier POIs.  Either that, or make them respect walk/run settings for zombies.

 

[Riamus]

That tip is the best way to save your butt, pay attention, do you see a dog house somewhere in the poi? that usually denotes a possible dog spawn somewhere in it

The bigger problem is in certain POI (I'd have to find one to get the name as I didn't think to take note of it at the time) where the dog attacks you before you get to a point where you can see the dog house if you're following the intended path.  If the dog house is visible first, then I don't think it's a big deal.  But if it is after meeting the dog, then it really feels bad for a tier 1 quest for someone who might be on their first quest and not geared to have any chance against a dog that they don't see in advance and be able to shoot with a bow.

 

[Renathras]

I'm with the OP on this one. Dogs are nearly impossible to kill.

Sure, if you go into a Tier 3-6 on day one, you should expect to run into something that will plaster you, but a Tier 1? That's just stupid. Especially considering how many debuffs they slap on you. Running into a dog at your first POI probably is going to get you a broken bone, bleeding out, abrasions, possibly leg damage, and probably an infection. Pretend you are a brand new player. You booted up the game the first time. You did the starting quests so you have a wooden club, stone axe, primitive bow, one arrow, and a pair of grass pants as you walk into your first Trader and go to your first ever POI. You don't have several stacks of materials on your toolbelt, you don't know what a nerd tower is, etc.

With that setup, running into a dog is you dead within 5 minutes of booting up the game.

This isn't Dark Souls, nor should it be. Challenge is one thing, but the phrase is "learning curve" not "learning cliff". This isn't Eve Online, either.

 

[theFlu]

With that setup, running into a dog is you dead within 5 minutes of booting up the game.

I dunno, might be good to show the unfair nature of the game within the steam refund -timer ... it ain't going to get better from there anyway

 

[AtomicUs5000]

For the longest time I've always hit the run down country POIs first until I felt comfortable that a dog wasn't going to kill me if caught off guard in residential areas. This seems to be an even more viable survival strategy these days when the forest is safer than ever and your spawn isn't a random biome. It only takes maybe a game day to get prepared.