PC Alpha 20 Dev Diary

[faatal]

Making/emitting light or just illuminated? From the results of some of the testing I've seen the volumes seem to be going based on just if the player is illuminated and not if the player is the one causing the illumination.

Yes, the normal test is how lit your are vs distance, but if you are making light, like holding a torch or a switched on flashlight in hand/head/weapon, then you automatically fail the check.

Nice, a quick easy bug to fix.  So just to confirm the limit is actually 65535 now or 32767 in the next build?

Yes, 65535 now. It was treated as signed, but now unsigned.

 

[Morloc]

if you are making light, like holding a torch or a switched on flashlight in hand/head/weapon, then you automatically fail the check.

Burning Shaft mod?

-Arch Necromancer Morloc 

 

[hiemfire]

Yes, the normal test is how lit your are vs distance, but if you are making light, like holding a torch or a switched on flashlight in hand/head/weapon, then you automatically fail the check.

Okay, and the "vs distance" part is supposed to not account for blocks obstructing path and/or LOS to the player?

 

[SheeleMara]

 I believe the answer is yes based off previous Alpha Versions but I'll ask anyways just to double check, but you're supposed to wipe your data in between each Experimental Patch, right? 

 

[Kosmic Kerman]

 I believe the answer is yes based off previous Alpha Versions but I'll ask anyways just to double check, but you're supposed to wipe your data in between each Experimental Patch, right? 

To be confident that a bug you are observing and would like to report is caused by the new patch and not vestigial remnants of A19 or a prior Experimental Build, yes. Otherwise, it's player choice. Everything will probably work fine but there is always the possibility that something won't.  

 

[dcsobral]

I'm a complete noob still getting used to the game, but is mandatory skill point allocation the only consistent way to get a workbench? Because if so, that's pretty bad design. All of your free points just go into the workbench, so what's the point? Might as well just give everyone the workbench from the beginning and not bother letting them think they just got some useful skill points...

You can buy them. Maybe you can buy their schematic, not sure. You can loot the schematic from broken versions as well. And it might be a quest tier completion reward.

 

[Jost Amman]

To be confident that a bug you are observing and would like to report is caused by the new patch and not vestigial remnants of A19 or a prior Experimental Build, yes. Otherwise, it's player choice. Everything will probably work fine but there is always the possibility that something won't.  

You can't imagine the flame I received on Steam just for suggesting this...  :tsk:

I mean, it's common sense.

 

[Khalagar]

What are "boss hordes"?

I'm pretty sure "boss horde" is the internal term for the spam of high level sleepers that guard the loot room at the end of a PoI. They will reset and teleport back to position if they fall off a building and deaggro, and it seems there were situations that would cause the quest state to get messed up when the player didn't just kill them outright

Why can't anyone of the mods answer this seriously?

Forum mods = / = developers, they either have lives and are busy, don't know because they aren't QA or developers, or don't like you. Possibly all three

 

[Callum123456789]

Does the new exp update need a server wipe?

i wouldnt say so no i usually only see servers wipe when theres a new alpha but i could be wrong

 

[unholyjoe]

You can't imagine the flame I received on Steam just for suggesting this...  :tsk:

I mean, it's common sense.

i get some doozies from bug reports too.

 

[SnowDog1942]

i wouldnt say so no i usually only see servers wipe.

I had to severely wipe about 20 minutes ago.

 

[meganoth]

Why can't anyone of the mods answer this seriously?

I thought the right answer was already given: https://community.7daystodie.com/topic/22366-alpha-20-dev-diary/?do=findComment&comment=456534

But I could be wrong. Maybe I'll get invited to a surprise meeting at the end of a tier 5 POI

 

[Mechanimal]

No reduction in upgrade costs though? - Confirmed

 So now we have to go back to uglier bases and ignore all the good pieces that were put in because not only are they weaker, but they cost way more given their weaker state.

Yeah... I'm surprised your the only one that's so far mentioned this one, give it another few days.

I, just, don't even know why this even happened, and am especially confused as to why the material/upgrade cost wouldn't also be adjusted the same way.

Like, one way or the other, or just put it back the way it was. Reducing block HP by 75% is no subtle nerf, jfc. But to still require the same amount of material to get there is an off the charts mistake.

I was having fun with the new shapes, so much for that I guess. I am highly skeptical this will stay as it is in this patch, it'll either revert to the way it was(ideal) or upgrade cost will be reduced to reflect the lower HP values(unfortunate, but tolerable. Still a massive blow to base building). Can't imagine how or why anyone could be happy with this cruel and unusual change. So if someone can manage to defend this, please try, lol. 

 

[MechanicalLens]

Yeah... I'm surprised your the only one that's so far mentioned this one, give it another few days.

I, just, don't even know why this even happened, and am especially confused as to why the material/upgrade cost wouldn't also be adjusted the same way.

Like, one way or the other, or just put it back the way it was. Reducing block HP by 75% is no subtle nerf, jfc. But to still require the same amount of material to get there is an off the charts mistake.

I was having fun with the new shapes, so much for that I guess. I am highly skeptical this will stay as it is in this patch, it'll either revert to the way it was(ideal) or upgrade cost will be reduced to reflect the lower HP values(unfortunate, but tolerable. Still a massive blow to base building). Can't imagine how or why anyone could be happy with this cruel and unusual change. So if someone can manage to defend this, please try, lol. 

This has honestly been the kick in the teeth for me. This has ruined all of my plans for horde bases, outside of cube watchtower bases. I'm out. Maybe I'll return to the game when a mod reverses this change, but until then, I'll be focusing my sights elsewhere. Chow.

 

[meganoth]

Yeah... I'm surprised your the only one that's so far mentioned this one, give it another few days.

I, just, don't even know why this even happened, and am especially confused as to why the material/upgrade cost wouldn't also be adjusted the same way.

Like, one way or the other, or just put it back the way it was. Reducing block HP by 75% is no subtle nerf, jfc. But to still require the same amount of material to get there is an off the charts mistake.

I was having fun with the new shapes, so much for that I guess. I am highly skeptical this will stay as it is in this patch, it'll either revert to the way it was(ideal) or upgrade cost will be reduced to reflect the lower HP values(unfortunate, but tolerable. Still a massive blow to base building). Can't imagine how or why anyone could be happy with this cruel and unusual change. So if someone can manage to defend this, please try, lol. 

Adjusting the material costs would mean you need three different generic block items per material instead of one. I.e. 3 wood shapes, 3 cobbelstone shapes, ... . And segment the shapes menue into 3 different shape menues that you can't just convert from one into the other.

It can be done, sure, but I guess that is a big disadvantage  and they won't like it much

Oh, just thought of an alternative: Poles would use up 1 wood shape while full blocks would use up 4 wood shapes when you place a block

And I guess the reasons are:

1) it conforms to expectations (i.e. a pole in reality has less "HP" than a full block)

2) They also have big in-game advantages as they use much less space for the same defense value

 

[Mahnogard]

Can't imagine how or why anyone could be happy with this cruel and unusual change. So if someone can manage to defend this, please try, lol. 

I can't defend it, but it didn't stand out to me because currently (out of habit) I generally only use full blocks and bars for primary fortifications. (I usually build walled compounds. If they get in, I've failed, so all the strength goes into that wall and its defenses.) So I think the lack of outcry just could come down to how people are building. I suspect you'll see more push-back on the change when the people who didn't read the patch notes yet see the results of the changes in their game, though.

 

[Roland]

So if someone can manage to defend this, please try, lol

I'm a pretty basic builder. I don't even know how I would use most of the new shapes for aesthetically pleasing results. I guess a good example could really help me. Can you describe one of the shapes that has been reduced in HP and exactly how that would compromise the security of your base? Are these smaller blocks the ones that are typically even going to be within reach of the horde? For example, some of the archway pieces probably won't ever get hit if you use them would they? What's the usecase for these pieces in zombie defense where their hp actually comes into play?

I mean if MechanicalLens is saying goodbye until this is fixed these must be pretty integral defensive blocks and maybe I need to learn about them better.

Why can't anyone of the mods answer this seriously?

I have the same question.

 

[Blake_]

I'm a pretty basic builder. I don't even know how I would use most of the new shapes for aesthetically pleasing results. I guess a good example could really help me. Can you describe one of the shapes that has been reduced in HP and exactly how that would compromise the security of your base?

Basically our cheat bases are compromised. That means the main objective of the change was balance. Now, full blocks are encouraged in order to not exploit entities that can actually go through 1 meter holes, like dogs, wolves and spiders. Before, you could just put a tiny pole on the side and they couldn't jump. Now you still can, but it has less hp, so it's a good trade off.

And, ironically, the change also promotes realism. No way that a tiny stick pole is stronger than a full block pillar. Yeah, materials are the same, but it's a game and complexity in this case is a headache.

 

[Red Eagle LXIX]

Yeah... I'm surprised your the only one that's so far mentioned this one, give it another few days.

I, just, don't even know why this even happened, and am especially confused as to why the material/upgrade cost wouldn't also be adjusted the same way.

Like, one way or the other, or just put it back the way it was. Reducing block HP by 75% is no subtle nerf, jfc. But to still require the same amount of material to get there is an off the charts mistake.

I was having fun with the new shapes, so much for that I guess. I am highly skeptical this will stay as it is in this patch, it'll either revert to the way it was(ideal) or upgrade cost will be reduced to reflect the lower HP values(unfortunate, but tolerable. Still a massive blow to base building). Can't imagine how or why anyone could be happy with this cruel and unusual change. So if someone can manage to defend this, please try, lol. 

This has honestly been the kick in the teeth for me. This has ruined all of my plans for horde bases, outside of cube watchtower bases. I'm out. Maybe I'll return to the game when a mod reverses this change, but until then, I'll be focusing my sights elsewhere. Chow.

My biggest issue with the block shapes change is that they cost just as much to upgrade. A block that has only 25% of the HP should not cost 100% of the upgrade costs. Add in that now you have to play a guessing game of which block has what HP (or place each shape, damage it so you can see the HP).
It makes sense smaller shapes should have less HP, if they also were to cost less to upgrade/make, and the player could tell which shapes were impacted in game (not by going to XML and not by having to damage it first).

@MechanicalLens Check the modding forum, already done.

@Roland You can see the list of blocks that were changed between b218 and b231 in the mod.  352 Shapes were changed assuming I didn't miss any.

 

[MechanicalLens]

I'm a pretty basic builder. I don't even know how I would use most of the new shapes for aesthetically pleasing results. I guess a good example could really help me. Can you describe one of the shapes that has been reduced in HP and exactly how that would compromise the security of your base? Are these smaller blocks the ones that are typically even going to be within reach of the horde? For example, some of the archway pieces probably won't ever get hit if you use them would they? What's the usecase for these pieces in zombie defense where their hp actually comes into play?

I mean if MechanicalLens is saying goodbye until this is fixed these must be pretty integral defensive blocks and maybe I need to learn about them better.

I have the same question.

It's not just for defensive purposes (although perhaps that as well). I was super enthusiastic about building something other than cube watchtower bases. Now those plans are being chipped away, in some ways inevitably, other ways currently and drastically. Why stop at plates and poles? I know I'm sounding paranoid and that is a route I really try to stray away from, but I think it's justified here. I imagine most of the deco blocks (maybe catwalks and bars too) will have nerfs in HP eventually. We'd be back to building with cubes, ramps, stairs, and half blocks.

And I understand I can simply build my home away from my horde base and go crazy there, but that still doesn't change the fact that my horde base would be barely any more interesting than a dumpster. Lol

It happens all the time. People figure out ways to cheese the zombies, lead them along corridors, use melee-only defensible walls, etc., and TFP go, "This is against our vision. We can't have this." With such an incredible community as this, encouraging variety is surely what they would want, right? Fixing an AI glitch is one thing, nerfing tons of blocks that could be used defensively or aesthetically is another. I never build cheese bases - they're not my type - but imo they're not any less valid than standard watch tower designs.

I praise A20 in all other respects (I'd yet to get into farming, so I cannot comment on that), but this... I cannot defend this change, sorry. And again, if it means anything, I don't build cheese or AFK bases, so you can't put me in that category. But I'm just 1 player who is probably resistant to change, so what do I know.

I've been meaning to get back into variety gaming anyway.

@MechanicalLens Check the modding forum, already done.

Got a link?