PC Is A20 another A16.4??

wicketness

wicketness

New member
Still hard for me to believe it has been almost 7 years since i found 7 days to die.

I lived through 10 Alphas so far.

I will never forget Alpha 16.4.  that was horrible. ( still in therapy years later)

with the world going nuts on covid, what do you think are the chances of seeing A20 before X Mas?

I always think worst case, and we are close to it already.

Players used to joke of 7 days to die still being in development when the world ends and we just live 7 days to die as the world ends. that is the finished product.

It is starting to look like this game is gonna be in Alpha for many years to come yet.

That could be a good thing with the promise of new content for years to come.

My thoughts are when is the game gonna become unplayable for the remaining players?

There is no optimization in sight yet.

As a 7 days to die host for my gaming group. I watched the requirements go up and up and up.

I have upgraded my home computer 4 times already just so i can play.

I been forced to upgrade my host systems multiple times just to have a semi stable and playable game server.

all i hear now days is LAGGGG!!!!! complaints. i mean there is a lot of potatoes disguised as computers out there.

My latest resource usage findings are pretty horrifying, CPU usage is through the roof on the host side of things. (windows server 2019)

i saw with only 11 players on a horde night 40% use of a Ryzen 5 3600X, if i was using intel on a four core host i would have been only able to have 1 game server running.

I know my settings were pretty high for a horde night 64 max per player and maximum 300 zombies, and yes i used the bot to bring in 50 more zombies to spice things up a lot every minute.

BUT this is where the game is at it's very best. The players are screaming for more all the time.

Now to even be able to play 7 days to die like this with at least 1-20 fps max you need to have a SSD, min 8GB ram and at least 4 cores from any intel i5 core series cpu, graphics card the minimum is 2Gb Vram. (This is what most of my players and team have)

My hopes are in at least the next 2-4 years TFP will at least start to optimize 7 days to die.

My fear is 7 days to die is gonna become a game only the rich can afford to play.

Not everyone can afford to spend 2-5 grand on a computer.

me i was lucky i upgraded everything before covid hit, and it will probably be 2-3 years before i upgrade again.

Why do i say only the rich?

have you seen the prices of graphics cards lol?

for now you can buy a pre-built for a decent price with a good graphics card.

Things are only gonna get worse from here on out. next will be CPU prices going up.

At some point TFP needs to have a hard look at this. all this HD textures and zombie remakes may look good but in the end you will lose players that can actually play 7 days to die.

with things going on in the world going out and finding a job and making money is not as easy as it once was. ( lotsa tin foil hats being used right now)

I am not trying to be a negative person, This is just how i see things are going when i step back and look at everything.

so i will draw a line and leave it at that. below that line is reserved for all you hateful people that stock posts like this and turn into Keyboard Super Heros lol.

I live in Canada where we still have Free Speech and can think our own thoughts.

That's My Nickle.

SMS Group Leader,

Noobinator. ( Formerly Noobs Inc.)

https://www.somethingmoreserious.com/

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My host system now days.


This is the New SMS Host System as of December 1st. 2020.

AMD Ryzen 5 3600X

6 cores / 12 threads - 3.8 GHz / 4.4 GHz

64GB DDR4 ECC 2666MHz

1 Gbps bandwidth

2x SSD NVMe 500GB Enterprise Class Soft RAID

Windows Server 2019 Standard

DDOS Protection

Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada.


And my home computer now days.

https://www.passmark.com/baselines/V10/display.php?id=124749031643






forgot to post that.

 
Max supported players is 8, which is why you're running into issues with running a huge server. To quell fears on zombies I get much better performance out of the new HD zombies than I did with the old UMA ones. I can game comfortably on my Vega 8 iGPU on low/medium or medium/high/ultra mix with my rx 480.

I did a performance comparison between A20, A19 and A18 just earlier today and the difference is very noticeable when going to A18 (A18 was laggy compared). I understand you want to have a ton of people on a server, but the intention and support is for up to 8, going above that is unsupported and issues are to be expected.

 
Dude, I played it on an i3 2120 with 8GB RAM and a GTX 750 Ti with some graphical tweaks and it was fine-ish. Now, with an i5 4570, 8 GB RAM and a GTX 1650 it simply flies... and it set me back some 300-350 Euros :)

 
1.You upgraded your PC 4x in 7 years and still are generations behind? What the hell are you wasting your money on?

2. You're exceeding number of players it is designed to handle and wonder why it doesn't handle them?

3. You're then adding extra zombies on top of it and somehow shocked at the performance levels?

4. Core count really has little to do with gaming performance. Very few games use multiple cores well. That's just the way it is. Cores will help much more on rendering and other PC tasks but not so much for gaming.

5. Tip - 64 gigs of ram is pretty garbage when it's running as slow as yours is. Why would you throw money down the toilet on 64 gigs of slow RAM? Please for all that's holy do some research before "upgrading" your machine again.

 
Software RAID hurts performance as well. Great way to slow down those NVMe drives.

For comparison, here's what our group hosts on.

Dell PowerEdge R710
Two X5680's at 3.5GHz 12c/24t (It can boost higher, but seems to hold steady around this speed.)

96GB DDR3 ECC 1366MHz in triple-channel mode.

Two 250GB Evo 860 SSD's in RAID-0 for the OS

Four 250GB Evo 860 SSD's in RAID-0 for the server data

Two 1TB FireCuda SSHD's in RAID-1 for backup data

This server hosts four 7 days to die servers with the max player count at 20 each. We have no issues. One of the servers is running Darkness Falls, and previously that same server was running some custom mods like Snufkin's Zombies with 4x spawns. 

As long as we maintain known stable values, we have no issues. We aren't setting spawn rates to 300 alive because we know going past 90 lags the server.

And I seem to have had to say this to a few server owners lately that think 50+ players is reasonable, so I'll say it again here.

I tested on a full cluster with 128-core EYPC, 256GB DDR4, and drive bandwidth of 45GBps using an array of Intel Optane drives. (Offhand it was 10 drives in RAID-0, but may have been 20 in RAID-10) I basically had access to an entire rack that was built to run an enterprise AI all to myself for the duration. Game client is simply not capable of handling more data.
30 players on a 12k map was a hard limit before we started seeing corruption.
For most rented hardware, the cap is 20.
Click to expand...


This isn't GTA-V, SC:GO, Ark, or Conan. It's not designed to support 70+ players out of the gate. (Do note also that those are not fully 3D Voxel games with complex AI mechanics or structural integrity, so it's kind of like comparing a bicycle to a corvette. 7 Days requires a lot more processing than those games that only rely on the GPU.)

And as for the client, you can get a stable 60FPS on an old Q6600 with 8GB DDR2 and a platter drive. I've done it in my min-spec hardware test.  I've also shown how much of an impact something as simple as core clock speeds can have in this system comparison. (Also note, these systems are my primary PC's. I've upgraded twice in the past 10 years. Once to upgrade the GPU from a 660Ti to the 1060, and the R9 3900X because the motherboard failed in the old intel.)

What really needs to happen, is that server owners like yourself need to get your head out of the clouds. You need to face the reality of what the game actually is. It doesn't matter what you think your players want.  You're basically trying to break Nürburgring lap times using a box van, and then complaining when it doesn't work.

 
Thanks for the update guys.

I will take all this into consideration.

I didn;t mean to come off as toxic or too complainy lol.

but i knew if i wanted a good response i would have to ruffle some feathers.

I now have the information i was seeking and i will leave it there. Once again.

Thank You for your input.

 
Just to add some more. I would speculate that TFP might consider raising the supported player count as the game client is optimized, and internal testing indicates that it's feasible. You aren't likely to see it go past 16 players though even then.

 
regarding the OP: lots of speculation coming from someone that doesn't seem to recognize as the years go by engines improve. Those improvements are taken advantage of, which often means adding more nuance to the game play, which in turn requires more cpu cycles to complete. 

Anything in development for this long will be drastically different from its first iteration just based on keeping up with engine tweaks that are possible.

All I can say is wait. talking about all of this prior to seeing what they ship is nothing but speculation.

 
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I am fully aware, of the improvements.

My post was meant to get a technical response.

I did rant on for abit. and i don;t post very often unless i am advertising a server i am hosting.

Most of it was made to induce a response from players with knowledge about this.

I am trying to make a choice for my group and what i pay for each month.

I now have everything i was hoping for. ( Info)

The title was miss leading for a reason.

I WAS fishing for information, after reading posts for 2 days i didn't have what i wanted.

But this worked and i caught some fish and still catching fish days later lmao.

No offense, but i got what i wanted by being falsely dramatic.

**I want My Nickle Back**

 
I suppose we can keep this going for abit longer.

got Rolands attention ( Waves) lol. ( Prize fish)

Sylens post was what i wanted. he gave me his version of hosting from experience.

i posted about lag and how the game is not optimized etc etc blah blah, take it how you want. it got my results lol.

I also wanted some entertainment. so i made a remark at the bottom of the post, that was targeted and negative.

I am bored and over the years when i post it is always a mixed bag good posts and toxic posts like JCrook1028

so i wonder what he will post this time lol.

there is always someone else out there that knows better and does better and want to push it in your face.

Call me crazy but it is how it is.

now that hardware raid post from sylen gave me some insight on what upgrades i should do next.

I rent my systems from OVH Canada. so that option is there just not sure if i want to go from 200 a month to a completely different range that is in the 400+ range for hardware raid.

i run 3 - 5 game servers normally making sure i have that fat 1 GBPS network it seems to help the most.

when it comes to ram faster that ain't an option unless i spend 500-750 a month + abit much for myself.

But i can change systems with hardware raid and i have considered it before just didn't want that extra cost.

as for my home system i don;t have teh cash on hand to go out and buy a complete system right off the bat.

i have to save up and buy it in pieces,  so 4 upgrades means graphics, new cpu more ram etc etc.

This system being the most i have spent in years as it was a completely new system with graphics card and ssd carried over.

I went from i3 2100 - a i5 2400 and now to a ryzen 5 3600.

i had started with 650 ti 2gb and now have the 4GB 970.

So home hosting is not an option, plus in canada you need to give an arm leg and maybe your left eye for that type of network upload speed.

and not having anti ddos i wouldn't even try it without it. so i am stuck renting from OVH as there is no one better out there in my price range.

as for the links who cares lol i posted them i pay for em so why not.

In the end i wanted to know from players and maybe some mods that host their own servers and understand what is required and probably done testing.

I do testing yes, but i have mixed results all the time. and i rarely host vanilla settings, usually in the range of what i posted above with a spawning file change to make it much more intense.

I wanted to close all my servers and just host one large 50 player server and have the entire host system just run that. it would basically be a 200 dollar a month server.

So thank you to SylenThunder  I have decided against that, and i will be staying with either 16 to 20 player servers knowing of the up tick in host system usage.

That's My Nickle.

SMS Group Leader,

Noobinator. ( Formerly Noobs Inc.)

https://www.somethingmoreserious.com/

 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
wicketness said:
I rent my systems from OVH Canada. so that option is there just not sure if i want to go from 200 a month to a completely different range that is in the 400+ range for hardware raid.

i run 3 - 5 game servers normally making sure i have that fat 1 GBPS network it seems to help the most.

when it comes to ram faster that ain't an option unless i spend 500-750 a month + abit much for myself.

But i can change systems with hardware raid and i have considered it before just didn't want that extra cost.
Click to expand...
See, that's exactly why we self-host. Those costs you listed are pretty insane, and you're still using a shared platform that is being utilized by other accounts.

When we were calculating what we wanted for hosting just 3-4 servers back in the a10 days, we were looking at $200 a month for just the bare minimum for the servers that I was running on a handful of spare PC's laying about. So I went looking around, and grabbed a lil SunFire V20z. It was great until about a15 when the specs went up, and our lil CPU's were not capable of the new technology required by Unity. (we had SSE2 and needed SSE3 off the top of my head.)   So off shopping I went again. Found the refurbished Dell PowerEdge for about $450. Grabbed the SSD's on sale for $25 each, and the SSHD's ran us about $70 each. Toss in a backup power supply sufficient for the server with Sinewave output, and that was another $250. 
Now at this point we're in for about a grand. Electricity for two of these servers costs us $35 a month to run, and the Gigabit internet is $105 after spending a couple hours bending Comcasts arm. So if we add it all up, that's around $2,700 for the first year and $1,700 for each year thereafter. To break it down monthly that's $225 a month up front for the first year, and $140 a month afterwards. I have run as many as 10 7 Days servers on this machine, but usually only have 4 active lately. That breaks it down to $35 a month long term for just 4 servers.

Now consider what it costs to rent a server at BlueFang. IIRC, the starting price over there is about $40 a month. Sure the CPU and RAM are a bit newer, but you've got software RAID and you're sharing that system with several other clients.  For OVH, your prices run even higher, as you showed above.
Getting your own hardware is a bit of an investment. However if you are tech savvy, have decent internet plans, and have a good place to store the equipment, it really pays off in the long run.   We went from hosting just the four 7 Days servers, to also running 9 Ark servers, 2 Conan servers, Empyrion, Heat, Minecraft, Space Engineers, and now even a few Valheim servers.  (Not all on the one PowerEdge. We have multiple machines now.)  Imagine what it would cost us to rent for all of those.

 
wicketness said:
I suppose we can keep this going for abit longer.

got Rolands attention ( Waves) lol. ( Prize fish)

Sylens post was what i wanted. he gave me his version of hosting from experience.

i posted about lag and how the game is not optimized etc etc blah blah, take it how you want. it got my results lol.

I also wanted some entertainment. so i made a remark at the bottom of the post, that was targeted and negative.

I am bored and over the years when i post it is always a mixed bag good posts and toxic posts like JCrook1028

so i wonder what he will post this time lol.

there is always someone else out there that knows better and does better and want to push it in your face.

Call me crazy but it is how it is.

now that hardware raid post from sylen gave me some insight on what upgrades i should do next.

I rent my systems from OVH Canada. so that option is there just not sure if i want to go from 200 a month to a completely different range that is in the 400+ range for hardware raid.

i run 3 - 5 game servers normally making sure i have that fat 1 GBPS network it seems to help the most.

when it comes to ram faster that ain't an option unless i spend 500-750 a month + abit much for myself.

But i can change systems with hardware raid and i have considered it before just didn't want that extra cost.

as for my home system i don;t have teh cash on hand to go out and buy a complete system right off the bat.

i have to save up and buy it in pieces,  so 4 upgrades means graphics, new cpu more ram etc etc.

This system being the most i have spent in years as it was a completely new system with graphics card and ssd carried over.

I went from i3 2100 - a i5 2400 and now to a ryzen 5 3600.

i had started with 650 ti 2gb and now have the 4GB 970.

So home hosting is not an option, plus in canada you need to give an arm leg and maybe your left eye for that type of network upload speed.

and not having anti ddos i wouldn't even try it without it. so i am stuck renting from OVH as there is no one better out there in my price range.

as for the links who cares lol i posted them i pay for em so why not.

In the end i wanted to know from players and maybe some mods that host their own servers and understand what is required and probably done testing.

I do testing yes, but i have mixed results all the time. and i rarely host vanilla settings, usually in the range of what i posted above with a spawning file change to make it much more intense.

I wanted to close all my servers and just host one large 50 player server and have the entire host system just run that. it would basically be a 200 dollar a month server.

So thank you to SylenThunder  I have decided against that, and i will be staying with either 16 to 20 player servers knowing of the up tick in host system usage.

That's My Nickle.

SMS Group Leader,

Noobinator. ( Formerly Noobs Inc.)

https://www.somethingmoreserious.com/

 
Click to expand...
Lol, as Sylen said much nicer... You're paying that much a month rather than buy the equipment yourself? Not a wise choice. I'll leave it there. Being more honest will set off your toxicity meter.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
One day i will do home hosting.

right now it is just not possible.

Still reworking everything from a 100% take down by covid back in (20 JUL, 2020 @ 3:49PM.) ( lost everything and was homeless for 2-3 months)(long story ) (Group restarted on Oct first 2020)

But i have been doing things this way for many years, player donations is what drives me forward.

and yes Roland i normally don't do that type of thing, But i am also Native American and half Chinese, so it comes from one of those parts lol.

and i understand mr.jcrooke. you and many many others have and do disapprove of how i do things.

I am not gonna get into the whys of it as that is personal and that is mine to deal with.

I simply do it because i love 7 days to die and the community i have built around it.

My group is my heart and soul and i give no less. 100% of my monthly food money is spent on the host.

The group has been feeding me for years. I know what sacrifice is as i do it everyday for my group.

the 7 days to die community changed my life for the better.

I would probably still be on the reservation drinking doing drugs and probably be dead right now. if i didn't discover this game and learned to become a group leader for my community.

I failed a lot burnt a lot of bridges and at least i can say i learned from that and grew as a person.

Anyways, that is enough outta me before violins start playing lmao.

I promise you this i will be here for years to come. and every so often i will i will go fishing lol.

That's My Nickle. ( we no longer have pennies in Canada so 2 cents don't work lol)

SMS Group Leader,

Noobinator. ( Formerly Noobs Inc.)

https://www.somethingmoreserious.com/

 
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wicketness said:
Still hard for me to believe it has been almost 7 years since i found 7 days to die.

I lived through 10 Alphas so far.

I will never forget Alpha 16.4.  that was horrible. ( still in therapy years later)

with the world going nuts on covid, what do you think are the chances of seeing A20 before X Mas?

I always think worst case, and we are close to it already.

Players used to joke of 7 days to die still being in development when the world ends and we just live 7 days to die as the world ends. that is the finished product.

It is starting to look like this game is gonna be in Alpha for many years to come yet.

That could be a good thing with the promise of new content for years to come.

My thoughts are when is the game gonna become unplayable for the remaining players?

There is no optimization in sight yet.

As a 7 days to die host for my gaming group. I watched the requirements go up and up and up.

I have upgraded my home computer 4 times already just so i can play.

I been forced to upgrade my host systems multiple times just to have a semi stable and playable game server.

all i hear now days is LAGGGG!!!!! complaints. i mean there is a lot of potatoes disguised as computers out there.

My latest resource usage findings are pretty horrifying, CPU usage is through the roof on the host side of things. (windows server 2019)

i saw with only 11 players on a horde night 40% use of a Ryzen 5 3600X, if i was using intel on a four core host i would have been only able to have 1 game server running.

I know my settings were pretty high for a horde night 64 max per player and maximum 300 zombies, and yes i used the bot to bring in 50 more zombies to spice things up a lot every minute.

BUT this is where the game is at it's very best. The players are screaming for more all the time.

Now to even be able to play 7 days to die like this with at least 1-20 fps max you need to have a SSD, min 8GB ram and at least 4 cores from any intel i5 core series cpu, graphics card the minimum is 2Gb Vram. (This is what most of my players and team have)

My hopes are in at least the next 2-4 years TFP will at least start to optimize 7 days to die.

My fear is 7 days to die is gonna become a game only the rich can afford to play.

Not everyone can afford to spend 2-5 grand on a computer.

me i was lucky i upgraded everything before covid hit, and it will probably be 2-3 years before i upgrade again.

Why do i say only the rich?

have you seen the prices of graphics cards lol?

for now you can buy a pre-built for a decent price with a good graphics card.

Things are only gonna get worse from here on out. next will be CPU prices going up.

At some point TFP needs to have a hard look at this. all this HD textures and zombie remakes may look good but in the end you will lose players that can actually play 7 days to die.

with things going on in the world going out and finding a job and making money is not as easy as it once was. ( lotsa tin foil hats being used right now)

I am not trying to be a negative person, This is just how i see things are going when i step back and look at everything.

so i will draw a line and leave it at that. below that line is reserved for all you hateful people that stock posts like this and turn into Keyboard Super Heros lol.

I live in Canada where we still have Free Speech and can think our own thoughts.

That's My Nickle.

SMS Group Leader,

Noobinator. ( Formerly Noobs Inc.)

https://www.somethingmoreserious.com/

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My host system now days.


This is the New SMS Host System as of December 1st. 2020.

AMD Ryzen 5 3600X

6 cores / 12 threads - 3.8 GHz / 4.4 GHz

64GB DDR4 ECC 2666MHz

1 Gbps bandwidth

2x SSD NVMe 500GB Enterprise Class Soft RAID

Windows Server 2019 Standard

DDOS Protection

Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada.


And my home computer now days.

https://www.passmark.com/baselines/V10/display.php?id=124749031643






forgot to post that.
Click to expand...
i know how it feels wicket im still sitting on a potato for a PC and just heard tfp are removing 4k maps in exchange for 6k maps and meanwhile not fixing the broken AF random world generator :)

 
7daystodierocks said:
i know how it feels wicket im still sitting on a potato for a PC and just heard tfp are removing 4k maps in exchange for 6k maps and meanwhile not fixing the broken AF random world generator :)
Click to expand...
Not sure where you heard they weren't fixing RWG. That was one of the first things covered in the first dev stream for a20, and has been such a major focus that some other features got pushed back to a21.

 
BTW Covid is getting well under control in the US, which is where (it seems) the Pimps are located.

but yeah A20 seems to be taking a long, long time. Guessing that many of the Pimps are working on the new unannounced game, which is fine and probably better. I stand by what I have said “the majority of us paid around $20 for the game, as it is now it is a perfectly fine $20 game”

 
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